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victorraiders

Latin American Scenarios

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1 hour ago, victorraiders said:

1012180422_Semttulo.png.3030fe8ff4b47f438c550dbf8e21b199.png

http://campaigns.270soft.com/2018/11/12/brazil-2018-presidential/

note this are very beta version, i will make others latin americans elections after that paraguay,mexico,uruguay,chile etc

 

I had planned some Mexican and Chilean scenarios myself, actually, and maybe some of the small Central American countries if I could get some maps for the latter.

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2 hours ago, victorraiders said:

1012180422_Semttulo.png.3030fe8ff4b47f438c550dbf8e21b199.png

http://campaigns.270soft.com/2018/11/12/brazil-2018-presidential/

note this are very beta version, i will make others latin americans elections after that paraguay,mexico,uruguay,chile etc

 

As well, pre-Batista (and thus, certainly, by nature, pre-Castro, but since electoral politics ended with Batista before Castro, the term is still accurate) Cuban elections are also being planned, and possibly a few Haitian (not many even remotely contested, democratic ones there, despite having "elections" of some sort or another since 1791) ones, too, though I'm not sure Haiti's considered Latin American, per se, and maybe some Dominican Republican and, though not a sovereign, independent nation, Puerto Rico.

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30 minutes ago, Patine said:

As well, pre-Batista (and thus, certainly, by nature, pre-Castro, but since electoral politics ended with Batista before Castro, the term is still accurate) Cuban elections are also being planned, and possibly a few Haitian (not many even remotely contested, democratic ones there, despite having "elections" of some sort or another since 1791) ones, too, though I'm not sure Haiti's considered Latin American, per se, and maybe some Dominican Republican and, though not a sovereign, independent nation, Puerto Rico.

very good what scenarios you current work progress?? i think latin american are in general except usa and canada

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1 hour ago, victorraiders said:

very good what scenarios you current work progress?? i think latin american are in general except usa and canada

Actually, I haven't yet officially started my first Latin American one (was currently dividing my time, at the moment, between Alberta 1909, 1917, 1921, 1935, and 1940, Manitoba 1870, British Columbia 2017, Canada 1921, 1935, 1940, and a remake of my 1957, Supreme Soviet 1989, German Reichstag 1871, United House of Representatives 1854, Kingdom of Hawaii House of Representatives 1940, maybe a remake of Wisconsin State Senate 2010, Wisconsin 1902,  Egypt 2012, Russia 1996, maybe remakes of my Uganda 2011, Russia 2012, and Washington State 2008 and 2012, and South Africa 2014, Armenia 2017, Slovenia 2018, Czechoslovakia 1920, East Germany 1990, Japan 2009, and possible remakes of my Austria 2008 and West Germany 1949 scenarios, all of which have some level of progress on them from being tinkered with over a long period of time), but I'd probably start with Mexico 2000, as historical political upset scenarios are always fun.

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I tried this scenario last night, and it seems incredibly biased in favor of Jair Bolsonaro and against everyone else, especially Fernando Haddad.

Haddad is a 1 in Integrity, but Bolsonaro a 4?  I heard enough to know Bolsonaro has his own issues with Integrity, those numbers should be closer together.  Bolsonaro is a 5 in Leadership, Experience, Charisma and Debating.  I'm not from Brazil, but I did pay some attention to the election, and frankly there's nothing in Bolsonaro's background or campaign that justifies numbers like that, in my view.  Same for Haddad - in fact in the description he is called "The worst mayor in Sao Paolo's history".  I'm aware Haddad was a polarizing mayor, but that belief doesn't seem to be shared by everyone.

I also find the stances on the issues, once again, to be very biased in favor of Bolsonaro.  He's listed as center-right or right on just about everything, even though Bolsonaro has taken some VERY extreme positions when it comes to gay rights, women, abortion, the slave trade, Brazil's dictatorship, and other issues, and is generally regarded by most to be a "far-right" politician.  On the flip side, Haddad is listed as far left on almost every issue.

It really seems like this scenario was designed by a Bolsonaro supporter, and I think the best scenarios are ones where we set our political preferences aside and try to make the election as accurate as possible.

I appreciate the effort you've put in, I just need to do some serious tweaking before I actually try playing this.
 

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3 hours ago, darkmoon72 said:

I tried this scenario last night, and it seems incredibly biased in favor of Jair Bolsonaro and against everyone else, especially Fernando Haddad.

Haddad is a 1 in Integrity, but Bolsonaro a 4?  I heard enough to know Bolsonaro has his own issues with Integrity, those numbers should be closer together.  Bolsonaro is a 5 in Leadership, Experience, Charisma and Debating.  I'm not from Brazil, but I did pay some attention to the election, and frankly there's nothing in Bolsonaro's background or campaign that justifies numbers like that, in my view.  Same for Haddad - in fact in the description he is called "The worst mayor in Sao Paolo's history".  I'm aware Haddad was a polarizing mayor, but that belief doesn't seem to be shared by everyone.

I also find the stances on the issues, once again, to be very biased in favor of Bolsonaro.  He's listed as center-right or right on just about everything, even though Bolsonaro has taken some VERY extreme positions when it comes to gay rights, women, abortion, the slave trade, Brazil's dictatorship, and other issues, and is generally regarded by most to be a "far-right" politician.  On the flip side, Haddad is listed as far left on almost every issue.

It really seems like this scenario was designed by a Bolsonaro supporter, and I think the best scenarios are ones where we set our political preferences aside and try to make the election as accurate as possible.

I appreciate the effort you've put in, I just need to do some serious tweaking before I actually try playing this.
 

i think are really some biased i will edit later,but have one's explanations example the integrity i use based in corrupt cases and things similiar no bad words or controversions thats why have haddad with only one lula others with only 1 of integrity are based in numbers of accusations,people with 2 have somes, 3 and 4 have little time in politics and no accusation,about experience are based in political carrer  experience examples 5 are president,formerpresidents 4 of experience bolsonaro have decades are deputy,alckmin are four time gov,gomes have decades in somes differents postions etc haddad have min and one time in mayor have 3, debates this year are very boring  i will talk about this in other comment

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3 hours ago, darkmoon72 said:

I tried this scenario last night, and it seems incredibly biased in favor of Jair Bolsonaro and against everyone else, especially Fernando Haddad.

Haddad is a 1 in Integrity, but Bolsonaro a 4?  I heard enough to know Bolsonaro has his own issues with Integrity, those numbers should be closer together.  Bolsonaro is a 5 in Leadership, Experience, Charisma and Debating.  I'm not from Brazil, but I did pay some attention to the election, and frankly there's nothing in Bolsonaro's background or campaign that justifies numbers like that, in my view.  Same for Haddad - in fact in the description he is called "The worst mayor in Sao Paolo's history".  I'm aware Haddad was a polarizing mayor, but that belief doesn't seem to be shared by everyone.

I also find the stances on the issues, once again, to be very biased in favor of Bolsonaro.  He's listed as center-right or right on just about everything, even though Bolsonaro has taken some VERY extreme positions when it comes to gay rights, women, abortion, the slave trade, Brazil's dictatorship, and other issues, and is generally regarded by most to be a "far-right" politician.  On the flip side, Haddad is listed as far left on almost every issue.

It really seems like this scenario was designed by a Bolsonaro supporter, and I think the best scenarios are ones where we set our political preferences aside and try to make the election as accurate as possible.

I appreciate the effort you've put in, I just need to do some serious tweaking before I actually try playing this.
 

Welcome back, @darkmoon72! It's so long, I may be the only left here you remembers you. You were helping me with my first U.S. 1996 scenario when I was working on it early on for P4E2008. But, yes, this scenario's ridiculous. I am also wondering about this "worst mayor in Sao Paolo's history," thing, too. From a quick perusal of the history of the city's mayor's office, a lot of corrupt, smarmy, apathetic, Mafia-style coffee barons have held that office - but, Haddad's automatically worse than all of them (probably because of the "living memory incumbent is often the worst or best to ever hold that office," or at least very close to it, ideal that's so common these days, especially among younger people. The level of bias @victorraiders is unbelievable, and similar to JohnnyK and @president9 and @VoteGOP scenarios (you MIGHT remember the latter from WAY back when), but this seems to be a growing thing where the political ideology one supports is literally viewed as having unrealistic achievements it doesn't, lacking glaring flaws it actually does, and must be forgiven outright issues that the same people would reliably hang other political ideologies with, but other ideologies are firmly (and irrationally) demonizing, can do, and have done, absolutely nothing right, are the enemies of all civilization in every way, automatically conflated with much more extreme ideologies they have no real tie to, and bad stereotypes and slander must be regarded as absolute fact. @victorraiders seems to have bought into this toxic environment of destructive, ruinous politics, taken his side right down line, and swallowed it hook, line, and the sinker, to the point where more or less objective scenarios on subjects so close to him are near impossible.

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8 minutes ago, Patine said:

Welcome back, @darkmoon72! It's so long, I may be the only left here you remembers you. You were helping me with my first U.S. 1996 scenario when I was working on it early on for P4E2008. But, yes, this scenario's ridiculous. I am also wondering about this "worst mayor in Sao Paolo's history," thing, too. From a quick perusal of the history of the city's mayor's office, a lot of corrupt, smarmy, apathetic, Mafia-style coffee barons have held that office - but, Haddad's automatically worse than all of them (probably because of the "living memory incumbent is often the worst or best to ever hold that office," or at least very close to it, ideal that's so common these days, especially among younger people. The level of bias @victorraiders is unbelievable, and similar to JohnnyK and @president9 and @VoteGOP scenarios (you MIGHT remember the latter from WAY back when), but this seems to be a growing thing where the political ideology one supports is literally viewed as having unrealistic achievements it doesn't, lacking glaring flaws it actually does, and must be forgiven outright issues that the same people would reliably hang other political ideologies with, but other ideologies are firmly (and irrationally) demonizing, can do, and have done, absolutely nothing right, are the enemies of all civilization in every way, automatically conflated with much more extreme ideologies they have no real tie to, and bad stereotypes and slander must be regarded as absolute fact. @victorraiders seems to have bought into this toxic environment of destructive, ruinous politics, taken his side right down line, and swallowed it hook, line, and the sinker, to the point where more or less objective scenarios on subjects so close to him are near impossible.

i will edit this later to more unpartial look

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Thanks, Patine!  Good to be back, and good to see you're still here.  I've still been lurking and downloading scenarios.  I've just been very busy so I haven't had time to make any or post much.

I appreciate that it can be difficult to separate our own biases out when making and editing these scenarios. 

I freely admit I tend to be left-of-center, would prefer more than 2 dominant parties in the United States, and I usually vote for Democrats and/or third-party candidates.  It's not surprising that I tend to play left-of-center and/or third-party candidates, prefer scenarios where it's possible for them to win, and will sometimes tweak scenarios in Campaign Editor to give lefties or third parties a fighting chance in scenarios where it's almost impossible for them to win.  That being said, I do try my best to stand back and look at the campaigns as an analyst might, at least when creating them - I wouldn't give Hillary Clinton a 5 in Charisma, for example, even though I did vote for her over Donald Trump.  But it's not always easy, especially if we were emotionally invested in a campaign.

Back to the scenario, I absolutely think Bolsonaro should generally have the advantage - after all, he did win both rounds by sizable margins.  Just not this much of an advantage.

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2 hours ago, darkmoon72 said:

Thanks, Patine!  Good to be back, and good to see you're still here.  I've still been lurking and downloading scenarios.  I've just been very busy so I haven't had time to make any or post much.

I appreciate that it can be difficult to separate our own biases out when making and editing these scenarios. 

I freely admit I tend to be left-of-center, would prefer more than 2 dominant parties in the United States, and I usually vote for Democrats and/or third-party candidates.  It's not surprising that I tend to play left-of-center and/or third-party candidates, prefer scenarios where it's possible for them to win, and will sometimes tweak scenarios in Campaign Editor to give lefties or third parties a fighting chance in scenarios where it's almost impossible for them to win.  That being said, I do try my best to stand back and look at the campaigns as an analyst might, at least when creating them - I wouldn't give Hillary Clinton a 5 in Charisma, for example, even though I did vote for her over Donald Trump.  But it's not always easy, especially if we were emotionally invested in a campaign.

Back to the scenario, I absolutely think Bolsonaro should generally have the advantage - after all, he did win both rounds by sizable margins.  Just not this much of an advantage.

very good to see feedbacks, probable you like see to try to give second position to center left alckmin,centrist/center right amoedo etc, i will add somes issues and events later that make scenario more interesting,i probable give bolsonaro 4 of leadership are in doubt if have 4 or 5 of debates open to suggestions but i think maintain 5 of charisma because helped much in campaign for example of accusations of bad words,homophic,etc,  the great leadership in this scenario are too of how his influence over independent voters and too local elections this year here in same day are elections of gov,senatorial,federal and state deputys ,he are one month without possible of make campaign now for example of my vision bolsonaro for example have very good results in this too with candidates he support. example his party go from 1 to 52 deputys and elected 4 senators and 3 gov in these two last both have just in somes few states candidates and have helped ones from others partys include if he dont open support them

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@victorraiders A question. You had strongly implied the reason you gave Haddad a 1 in Integrity was, in very large part, because he was a "Chavez/Maduro disciple." Would you give a 1 in Integrity in a Latin American election to an open and unabashed Pinochet admirer (admiring in a way that would VERY likely affect their policies), as well?

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

@victorraiders A question. You had strongly implied the reason you gave Haddad a 1 in Integrity was, in very large part, because he was a "Chavez/Maduro disciple." Would you give a 1 in Integrity in a Latin American election to an open and unabashed Pinochet admirer (admiring in a way that would VERY likely affect their policies), as well?

i dont gave 1 of integrity only because this are more of corruption cases and things similiar to that the integrity are more for corruption than others things

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15 minutes ago, victorraiders said:

i dont gave 1 of integrity only because this are more of corruption cases and things similiar to that the integrity are more for corruption than others things

But seemingly you DON'T dock Integrity for Bolisanaro's very retrograde, xenophobic, intolerant, praise of past injustices and tyrants, and other, at the VERY BEST, out-of-touch comments.

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I am making these tweaks in Campaign Editor, and will play the scenario based off these changes to attributes and issues.  I did a little bit of research here to come up with all this.  If I left an issue out, it's because I thought it was fine as is and I won't change it.

We can discuss some differences here and there, but overall I think this is a bit closer to an objective scenario, and Bolsonaro would still have an advantage.  I welcome any and all feedback.
 

Fernando Haddad

Leadership: 2
Integrity: 2
Experience: 3
Issue Familiarity: 4
Charisma: 2
Stamina: 4
Debating: 3


Jair Bolsonaro

Leadership: 3
Integrity: 2
Experience: 4
Issue Familiarity: 3
Charisma: 4
Stamina: 3
Debating: 4

 

Issues

Gov't Spending - Haddad: Left    Bolsonaro: Right
Health Care - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Center-Right
Role of Gov't - Haddad: Left    Bolsonaro: Center-Right
Tax Rates - Haddad: Center-Left        Bolsonaro: Right
Social Security - Haddad: Left    Bolsonaro: Right
Energy - Haddad: Center-Left        Bolsonaro: Right
Defense Spending - Haddad: Left    Bolsonaro: Right
Iran - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Far-Right
Military Intervention - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Far-Right
Education - Haddad: Far-Left        Bolsonaro: Far-Right
Unions - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Right
War on Terror - Haddad: Left    Bolsonaro: Right
Same-Sex Marriage - Haddad: Left    Bolsonaro: Far-Right
Environment - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Right
Gun Control - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Far-Right
Free Trade - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Right
Abortion - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Right
Venezuela - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Right

Also, I noticed all the Campaign Strength attributes are set at 1 for Haddad, and are at 4 for Bolsonaro (except Fundraising).  I would think Haddad would be at a 4 for most attributes as well, since he was the ruling party's candidate.  Maybe a 3 if Bolsonaro needs more of an edge - accounting for the Workers' Party's recent scandals and problems - but he definitely shouldn't be at a 1 for everything.  Usually I associate all 1s with also-ran candidates that don't even crack 5% of the vote, not the second-place finisher in a runoff election.

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4 minutes ago, darkmoon72 said:

I am making these tweaks in Campaign Editor, and will play the scenario based off these changes to attributes and issues.  I did a little bit of research here to come up with all this.  If I left an issue out, it's because I thought it was fine as is and I won't change it.

We can discuss some differences here and there, but overall I think this is a bit closer to an objective scenario, and Bolsonaro would still have an advantage.  I welcome any and all feedback.
 

Fernando Haddad

Leadership: 2
Integrity: 2
Experience: 3
Issue Familiarity: 4
Charisma: 2
Stamina: 4
Debating: 3


Jair Bolsonaro

Leadership: 3
Integrity: 2
Experience: 4
Issue Familiarity: 3
Charisma: 4
Stamina: 3
Debating: 4

 

Issues

Gov't Spending - Haddad: Left    Bolsonaro: Right
Health Care - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Center-Right
Role of Gov't - Haddad: Left    Bolsonaro: Center-Right
Tax Rates - Haddad: Center-Left        Bolsonaro: Right
Social Security - Haddad: Left    Bolsonaro: Right
Energy - Haddad: Center-Left        Bolsonaro: Right
Defense Spending - Haddad: Left    Bolsonaro: Right
Iran - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Far-Right
Military Intervention - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Far-Right
Education - Haddad: Far-Left        Bolsonaro: Far-Right
Unions - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Right
War on Terror - Haddad: Left    Bolsonaro: Right
Same-Sex Marriage - Haddad: Left    Bolsonaro: Far-Right
Environment - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Right
Gun Control - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Far-Right
Free Trade - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Right
Abortion - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Right
Venezuela - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Right

Also, I noticed all the Campaign Strength attributes are set at 1 for Haddad, and are at 4 for Bolsonaro (except Fundraising).  I would think Haddad would be at a 4 for most attributes as well, since he was the ruling party's candidate.  Maybe a 3 if Bolsonaro needs more of an edge - accounting for the Workers' Party's recent scandals and problems - but he definitely shouldn't be at a 1 for everything.  Usually I associate all 1s with also-ran candidates that don't even crack 5% of the vote, not the second-place finisher in a runoff election.

That looks a lot more accurate. But were Iran and a "War on Terror" actually issues to Brazilians in this election at all? That seems very surprising and unusual. Or did @victorraiders just grandfather them in with from the TheorySpark U.S. list without too much scrutiny?

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49 minutes ago, darkmoon72 said:

I am making these tweaks in Campaign Editor, and will play the scenario based off these changes to attributes and issues.  I did a little bit of research here to come up with all this.  If I left an issue out, it's because I thought it was fine as is and I won't change it.

We can discuss some differences here and there, but overall I think this is a bit closer to an objective scenario, and Bolsonaro would still have an advantage.  I welcome any and all feedback.
 

Fernando Haddad

Leadership: 3
Integrity: 2
Experience: 3
Issue Familiarity: 4
Charisma: 2
Stamina: 4
Debating: 3


Jair Bolsonaro

Leadership: 4
Integrity: 4
Experience: 4
Issue Familiarity: 3
Charisma: 4
Stamina: 3
Debating: 4

 

Issues

Gov't Spending - Haddad: Far-Left    Bolsonaro: Center-Right
Health Care - Haddad: Far-Left        Bolsonaro: Center
Role of Gov't - Haddad: Far-Left    Bolsonaro: Center-Right
Tax Rates - Haddad: Far-Left        Bolsonaro: Right
Social Security - Haddad: Left    Bolsonaro: Center-Right
Energy - Haddad: Center-Left        Bolsonaro: Center-Right
Defense Spending - Haddad: Left    Bolsonaro: Right
Iran - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Far-Right
Military Intervention - Haddad: Left        Bolsonaro: Right
Education - Haddad: Far-Left        Bolsonaro: Center-Right
Unions - Haddad: Far-Left        Bolsonaro: Right
War on Terror - Haddad: Left    Bolsonaro: Right
Same-Sex Marriage - Haddad: Left    Bolsonaro: Right
Environment - Haddad: Center-Left        Bolsonaro: Right
Gun Control - Haddad: Far-Left        Bolsonaro: Right
Free Trade - Haddad: Far-Left        Bolsonaro: Center-Right
Abortion - Haddad: Far-Left        Bolsonaro: Right
Venezuela - Haddad: Far-Left        Bolsonaro: Right

Also, I noticed all the Campaign Strength attributes are set at 1 for Haddad, and are at 4 for Bolsonaro (except Fundraising).  I would think Haddad would be at a 4 for most attributes as well, since he was the ruling party's candidate.  Maybe a 3 if Bolsonaro needs more of an edge - accounting for the Workers' Party's recent scandals and problems - but he definitely shouldn't be at a 1 for everything.  Usually I associate all 1s with also-ran candidates that don't even crack 5% of the vote, not the second-place finisher in a runoff election.

i thinks this are more plausible with positions of candidates in real life if you like i will talk with you and explain why haddad are far left for example,the positions you put in haddad are more similiar with alckmin

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7 minutes ago, victorraiders said:

i thinks this are more plausible with positions of candidates in real life if you like i will talk with you and explain why haddad are far left for example

Can you please tell me why "Iran" and "War on Terror" are electoral issues in Brazil?

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6 minutes ago, Patine said:

Can you please tell me why "Iran" and "War on Terror" are electoral issues in Brazil?

i will edit,add ones exclude others etc, i will add china/cuba,usa for example,iran,iraq,china,cuba,venezuela have tied relation with last government of brazil,war on terror i will see if put war on drugs narcotrafic or etc here hezbollah are great ally with FARC, and somes in brazil example pcc,cv, i think war on crime are good

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Just now, victorraiders said:

i will edit,add ones exclude others etc, i will add china/cuba,usa for example,iran,iraq,china,cuba,venezuela have tied relation with last government of brazil,war on terror i will see if put war on drugs narcotrafic or etc here hezbollah are great ally with FARC, and somes in brazil example pcc,cv, i thin war on crime are good

Are you saying that Iran, post-Baathist-Iraq, China, and Venezuela are all together in some alliance? That's quite the statement, and one which I've seen absolutely no real evidence of. It's sounds like a paranoid Glen Beck conspiracy theory to me.

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4 minutes ago, Patine said:

Are you saying that Iran, post-Baathist-Iraq, China, and Venezuela are all together in some alliance? That's quite the statement, and one which I've seen absolutely no real evidence of. It's sounds like a paranoid Glen Beck conspiracy theory to me.

no i talk about relation with PT,the party have good realitions with Great majority of islamic regime and African dictators ,China,Venezuela etc

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1 minute ago, victorraiders said:

no i talk about relation with PT,the party have good realitions with Great majority of islamic regime and African dictators ,China,Venezuela etc

Name these specific "Islamic regimes and African dictators." A list please. No generalized, amorphous, open-ended terminology to deliberately give ammunition to the perpetuation of bad stereotypes of whole regions of the world. Not every "Islamic regime and African dictator" has the same agendas, political ideologies, or diplomatic or military alliances, and, indeed, quite a few of them have been, and are, (toxic) allies of the West. *cough* Saudi Arabia *cough*

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11 minutes ago, Patine said:

Name these specific "Islamic regimes and African dictators." A list please. No generalized, amorphous, open-ended terminology to deliberately give ammunition to the perpetuation of bad stereotypes of whole regions of the world. Not every "Islamic regime and African dictator" has the same agendas, political ideologies, or diplomatic or military alliances, and, indeed, quite a few of them have been, and are, (toxic) allies of the West. *cough* Saudi Arabia *cough*

lol the party have good relation with saudi arabia too ,of africa example angola,zimbabwe,congo,guine equatorial,this year PolicialFederal in Brazil found with 16 million in cash and luxury watches in the suitcases of "vicepresident" of equatorial guinea

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46 minutes ago, victorraiders said:

i thinks this are more plausible with positions of candidates in real life if you like i will talk with you and explain why haddad are far left for example,the positions you put in haddad are more similiar with alckmin

I did some digging on various issues - and with the exception of the ones that were grandfathered in, they seemed pretty close.  Bolsonaro is definitely "far right" on more issues than I think you care to admit - I noticed you edited them down so that he only had 1 far right position, and that simply doesn't match up with his campaign.

Not to mention, I kept an eye on how most outlets characterized the race.  While Haddad was sometimes referred to as "leftist" and sometimes "far left", Bolsonaro was just about always described as "far right", which I'd say is fairly accurate, given some of his very extreme stances and statements.  I have a hard time picturing Haddad as more extreme left than Bolsonaro is to the right.

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14 minutes ago, darkmoon72 said:

I did some digging on various issues - and with the exception of the ones that were grandfathered in, they seemed pretty close.  Bolsonaro is definitely "far right" on more issues than I think you care to admit - I noticed you edited them down so that he only had 1 far right position, and that simply doesn't match up with his campaign.

Not to mention, I kept an eye on how most outlets characterized the race.  While Haddad was sometimes referred to as "leftist" and sometimes "far left", Bolsonaro was just about always described as "far right", which I'd say is fairly accurate, given some of his very extreme stances and statements.  I have a hard time picturing Haddad as more extreme left than Bolsonaro is to the right.

well i will explain why, here the farleft are in power for more than decade and how brazil have moved for left in this time explain why jornalists(great part of them are pt voters or for other more farleft minor)before this year PT have running against PSDB(socialdemocrats)and have say them are extremists and others who running against,in last decade are basically Farleft vs Left vs Centerleft,the centerRight/Right back this year national and regional with amoedo and bolsonaro respectively

Edited by victorraiders

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