Jump to content
270soft Forum
Sign in to follow this  
NYrepublican

Incivility in politics

Recommended Posts

Am I the only one who thinks there's a good chance of serious unrest in American political or otherwise within the next 20 years?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NYrepublican said:

Am I the only one who thinks there's a good chance of serious unrest in American political or otherwise within the next 20 years?

 

No offense or bias here, but both parties will most likely cause a rebellion in our nation within 50 years, so no you are not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NYConservative said:

No offense or bias here, but both parties will most likely cause a rebellion in our nation within 50 years, so no you are not.

Quote

Americans say they’re personally experiencing incivility just about everywhere, including on the road (56 percent), while shopping (47 percent), in the neighborhood (25 percent) and online (25 percent). And while 34 percent of the 1,126 adults polled say they have in the past experienced incivility at work, the overwhelming majority (86 percent) said that their place of employment is currently a civil one

from https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/incivility-u-s-so-intense-americans-feel-safest-work-n775211

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Within the next 20 years? I feel like it's already started. I think so much depends upon how Trump and voters react to the violence of the last few days. What happened in that Synagogue is a historic tragedy. A 97-year-old holocaust survivor was able to survive the most horrific era in human history only to be shot by another "nationalism" inspired act of violence. You can't be an American president and be a nativist and espouse nativist views in a country that has always been a melting pot of races, ethnicities, religions, etc. We are cosmopolitan by our very nature, legally and culturally. This specific villain is even more extreme than Trump---calling Trump a globalist. In Trump's defense, he was right to condemn this man right away, but if he's going to continue to lead (yes, lead) this country, then he's going to have to stop inspiring this crap with open nativist and nationalist rhetoric. He's not more patriotic or American for his rhetoric, he's actually the opposite, since he ignores our melting pot history and origins. 

Here are some of our ancestors arrive in a turn of a century "caravan." Our ancestors were immigrants. They too were subjected to nativist violence. Sadly, many of their children, and their children's children have lost their sense of history--their sense of being "Real Americans"--and have become nativists themselves. 

4d04729990badf58cfa599da03b4b67c.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Within the next 20 years? I feel like it's already started. I think so much depends upon how Trump and voters react to the violence of the last few days. What happened in that Synagogue is a historic tragedy. A 97-year-old holocaust survivor was able to survive the most horrific era in human history only to be shot by another "nationalism" inspired act of violence. You can't be an American president and be a nativist and espouse nativist views in a country that has always been a melting pot of races, ethnicities, religions, etc. We are cosmopolitan by our very nature, legally and culturally. This specific villain is even more extreme than Trump---calling Trump a globalist. In Trump's defense, he was right to condemn this man right away, but if he's going to continue to lead (yes, lead) this country, then he's going to have to stop inspiring this crap with open nativist and nationalist rhetoric. He's not more patriotic or American for his rhetoric, he's actually the opposite, since he ignores our melting pot history and origins. 

Here are some of our ancestors arrive in a turn of a century "caravan." Our ancestors were immigrants. They too were subjected to nativist violence. Sadly, many of their children, and their children's children have lost their sense of history--their sense of being "Real Americans"--and have become nativists themselves. 

4d04729990badf58cfa599da03b4b67c.jpg

And besides, if you're going down to "nativist, original, true source Americans" anyways, only the Indigenous Americans with "treaty rights" (or qualifying for them) and "tribal membership" qualify for those terms, anyways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, NYrepublican said:

Am I the only one who thinks there's a good chance of serious unrest in American political or otherwise within the next 20 years?

Of course not! I'm expecting civil war to break out any day now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Wiw said:

Of course not! I'm expecting civil war to break out any day now!

Let's hold our horses. Let's remember the Civil War broke out at a time of MUCH more division then what we currently experience. Politics and government have always been nasty and the Civil War broke out because of one almighty motivator; money. We had two distinct regions of the nation which felt more indebted to their sectionalism than nationalism, they made money two incredibly different ways, and the ways which they did were diametrically and philosophically opposed to one another. The South only seceded when they felt their way of life (making money) was threatened. That is an America far from which we live. Besides, for a Civil War to happen you have to have near uniform support among certain regions of the nation which is not currently the case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Reagan04 said:

Let's hold our horses. Let's remember the Civil War broke out at a time of MUCH more division then what we currently experience. Politics and government have always been nasty and the Civil War broke out because of one almighty motivator; money. We had two distinct regions of the nation which felt more indebted to their sectionalism than nationalism, they made money two incredibly different ways, and the ways which they did were diametrically and philosophically opposed to one another. The South only seceded when they felt their way of life (making money) was threatened. That is an America far from which we live. Besides, for a Civil War to happen you have to have near uniform support among certain regions of the nation which is not currently the case.

Banal nationalism (which the U.S. certainly has in abundance and ubiquity) doesn't necessarily hold a nation together as strongly as idealistic patriotism and national self-image, especially with two (or arguably more) powerful and sharply differing views of just WHAT the United States IS and MEANS as a nation. When you, @vcczar, and even @jvikings1 speak of this issue, you can see three very different, and contradictory currents of thought, greatly at odds with one other, of what you all consider the ideal of the United States, as a nation, to be. But all three of you obviously consider yourselves patriots. I think THAT'S a big part of the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Patine said:

Banal nationalism (which the U.S. certainly has in abundance and ubiquity) doesn't necessarily hold a nation together as strongly as idealistic patriotism and national self-image, especially with two (or arguably more) powerful and sharply differing views of just WHAT the United States IS and MEANS as a nation. When you, @vcczar, and even @jvikings1 speak of this issue, you can see three very different, and contradictory currents of thought, greatly at odds with one other, of what you all consider the ideal of the United States, as a nation, to be. But all three of you obviously consider yourselves patriots. I think THAT'S a big part of the problem.

I think jvikings and I mostly agree and I think vcc and I could agree on a lot. To put it in very simple terms, the United States is a nation not built on National Origin, Race, or Ethnicity but on Values. We are a nation built on Liberty over Equality. And we are a nation that upholds rights given by God and inalienable by a government of men. I do not mean to spark discord, I simply wish to clarify the foundation of my American patriotism. It's not that we are some sort of Christian nation dictated by the Bible because we are not and furthermore, nor should we be. But we are a nation founded on Judeo-Christian principles that invoke a value set and an understanding of natural rights that transcend mundane government.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

I think jvikings and I mostly agree and I think vcc and I could agree on a lot. To put it in very simple terms, the United States is a nation not built on National Origin, Race, or Ethnicity but on Values. We are a nation built on Liberty over Equality. And we are a nation that upholds rights given by God and inalienable by a government of men. I do not mean to spark discord, I simply wish to clarify the foundation of my American patriotism. It's not that we are some sort of Christian nation dictated by the Bible because we are not and furthermore, nor should we be. But we are a nation founded on Judeo-Christian principles that invoke a value set and an understanding of natural rights that transcend mundane government.

Where does God EVER guarantee, by his own providence, above any mortal government, ANY of the rights in the U.S. Bill of Rights? Such guarantees are actually notably absent in scripture. Free Will is the only "inalienable right" verifiably guaranteed in Christian scripture (and John Calvin, one of the greatest blights, stains, and corruptions on Christiandom) tries to contrive that away through his serpentine writings. Also, the phrase, "Liberty over Equality," has always just been a catch phrase for the wealthy, established elite to protect their abundant privilege and say that success to their level is POSSIBLE for others, but they've stacked the deck socially and economically against those born in a disadvantaged social status, and any realistic advancement is by sucking up thoroughly to them - replacing feudalism with gatekeeper nepotism - which ends up as just as despicable a system, and one that, as we see in the U.S., also leads to a huge disparity of wealth, largely (though entirely, admittedly) along demographic lines - not really the grand system you claim, in the long-run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Patine said:

Where does God EVER guarantee, by his own providence, above any mortal government, ANY of the rights in the U.S. Bill of Rights? Such guarantees are actually notably absent in scripture. Free Will is the only "inalienable right" verifiably guaranteed in Christian scripture (and John Calvin, one of the greatest blights, stains, and corruptions on Christiandom) tries to contrive that away through his serpentine writings. Also, the phrase, "Liberty over Equality," has always just been a catch phrase for the wealthy, established elite to protect their abundant privilege and say that success to their level is POSSIBLE for others, but they've stacked the deck socially and economically against those born in a disadvantaged social status, and any realistic advancement is by sucking up thoroughly to them - replacing feudalism with gatekeeper nepotism - which ends up as just as despicable a system, and one that, as we see in the U.S., also leads to a huge disparity of wealth, largely (though entirely, admittedly) along demographic lines - not really the grand system you claim, in the long-run.

Quote

I think jvikings and I mostly agree and I think vcc and I could agree on a lot. To put it in very simple terms, the United States is a nation not built on National Origin, Race, or Ethnicity but on Values. We are a nation built on Liberty over Equality. And we are a nation that upholds rights given by God and inalienable by a government of men. I do not mean to spark discord, I simply wish to clarify the foundation of my American patriotism. It's not that we are some sort of Christian nation dictated by the Bible because we are not and furthermore, nor should we be. But we are a nation founded on Judeo-Christian principles that invoke a value set and an understanding of natural rights that transcend mundane government.

I'm not really in the mood for such a sprawling and heavy debate and I do not believe that you, in your heart of hearts are either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Reagan04 said:

I'm not really in the mood for such a sprawling and heavy debate and I do not believe that you, in your heart of hearts are either.

I'm fully willing to drop the issue. But, keep in mind, you invoked the Name of God, and you know, as well as I do, that inspires powerful emotions and passions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Patine said:

Banal nationalism (which the U.S. certainly has in abundance and ubiquity) doesn't necessarily hold a nation together as strongly as idealistic patriotism and national self-image, especially with two (or arguably more) powerful and sharply differing views of just WHAT the United States IS and MEANS as a nation. When you, @vcczar, and even @jvikings1 speak of this issue, you can see three very different, and contradictory currents of thought, greatly at odds with one other, of what you all consider the ideal of the United States, as a nation, to be. But all three of you obviously consider yourselves patriots. I think THAT'S a big part of the problem.

A big part of the problem is many people try and make the claim that those who disagree with them are un-American or don't love their country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, jvikings1 said:

A big part of the problem is many people try and make the claim that those who disagree with them are un-American or don't love their country.

This is indeed a big issue. Using patriotism and nationalism as a vehicle for political and social intolerance and homogeneity. Such a sentiment is a hallmark (though it hasn't yet reached to this extent yet in the mainstream of the U.S., except maybe arguably in the 1870's to 1960's Deep South to a notable degree) of Fascistic thinking and tactics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is not something new. Literally everything in politics has been seen before. Divisiveness? This country once broke into two separate parts and shot at each other for years. Nothing new.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

This is not something new. Literally everything in politics has been seen before. Divisiveness? This country once broke into two separate parts and shot at each other for years. Nothing new.

Well, if everything is the same to you, and nothing ever changes or is new, I truly pity you and your pathetic, nihilistic view of the world and the dismal, fatalistic vision you must have of all around you...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Wiw said:

I thought I was the one with the nihilistic views and fatalistic visions!

No, you may be fatalistic, but your shock, horror, and outrage at everything you call out and denounce shows a definite lack of nihilism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×