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NYrepublican

Free Will

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I apologize to Anthony for this being somewhat off-topic but I've been trying to come up with a working definition of free will as of late. Any ideas?

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19 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

I apologize to Anthony for this being somewhat off-topic but I've been trying to come up with a working definition of free will as of late. Any ideas?

"Free will" in Christian doctrine - at least outside of Calvinist garbage, which is one of the greatest blights, stains, and corruptions upon the face of Christiandom, and thus thoroughly tainting any denomination built upon Calvinist principals - is the freedom of humanity to choose whether or not to follow God's plan to Salvation of their own choice, that making that plan and path to Salvation actually valid. Free will is the only "inalienable right" demonstrably granted by God by His own providence, despite the "natural right" crowd you say all the rights granted in the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of the Rights, and other documents are granted by God's Will and Providence - no evidence AT ALL exists to support that belief - and free will being an essential pillar if God's Plan for Salvation is also a POWERFUL argument, among others, that theocracy, theonymy, and otherwise legislating, enforcing, and punishing the breaches of Judeo-Christian moral ideals outside the realms necessary to maintain and administer a secular mortal nation on the earth are not part of what was preached in the Ministry of Christ nor part of his vision for his Church and followers.

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5 minutes ago, Patine said:

"Free will" in Christian doctrine - at least outside of Calvinist garbage, which is one of the greatest blights, stains, and corruptions upon the face of Christiandom, and thus thoroughly tainting any denomination built upon Calvinist principals - is the freedom of humanity to choose whether or not to follow God's plan to Salvation of their own choice, that making that plan and path to Salvation actually valid. Free will is the only "inalienable right" demonstrably granted by God by His own providence, despite the "natural right" crowd you say all the rights granted in the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of the Rights, and other documents are granted by God's Will and Providence - no evidence AT ALL exists to support that belief - and free will being an essential pillar if God's Plan for Salvation is also a POWERFUL argument, among others, that theocracy, theonymy, and otherwise legislating, enforcing, and punishing the breaches of Judeo-Christian moral ideals outside the realms necessary to maintain and administer a secular mortal nation on the earth are not part of what was preached in the Ministry of Christ nor part of his vision for his Church and followers.

But to what extent need that choice be "free" to qualify as such?

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Just now, NYrepublican said:

But to what extent need that choice be "free" to qualify as such?

To the full extent, for example, that modern law expects genuine consent for a binding contract or consent for sexual activity, as a much more mundane analog. Someone must be fully able to exert their full faculties of decision-making to accept or reject God's plan to Salvation, if whenever they sin, whether to ask forgiveness or continue to sin knowingly.

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

To the full extent, for example, that modern law expects genuine consent for a binding contract or consent for sexual activity, as a much more mundane analog. Someone must be fully able to exert their full faculties of decision-making to accept or reject God's plan to Salvation, if whenever they sin, whether to ask forgiveness or continue to sin knowingly.

Well what if someone was raised or is in an environment where he'd reject it (whatever it is). Can he be blamed for it?

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28 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

Well what if someone was raised or is in an environment where he'd reject it (whatever it is). Can he be blamed for it?

Christ says a quote that His "Father has many different mansions in His Kingdom." This has often been viewed by many, probably with reasonable support, that the Christian post-Judgment scheme is not quite as simple as flat, black-and-white "Heaven and Hell for Eternity," but that different fates await those depending on their levels of virtue or sin, or attempting to achieve virtue but failing due to their nature or environment, and those who could never be ministered too because of their place or origin, and whether such people were nonetheless more inclined to willing virtue or sin, as well as the innocent who are incapable of understanding the choice and coherently choosing, like infants and small children, the severely mentally ill and handicapped, and those suffering dementia and Alzeimers' with age - and then those, the worst of them, who knowingly and willingly reject God and perform of the most abominable and horrific acts by their own FREE CHOICE. It seems from that parable, and a few other hints Christ lays out here and there, that this is more likely the case.

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On 9/23/2018 at 6:41 PM, Patine said:

Christ says a quote that His "Father has many different mansions in His Kingdom." This has often been viewed by many, probably with reasonable support, that the Christian post-Judgment scheme is not quite as simple as flat, black-and-white "Heaven and Hell for Eternity," but that different fates await those depending on their levels of virtue or sin, or attempting to achieve virtue but failing due to their nature or environment, and those who could never be ministered too because of their place or origin, and whether such people were nonetheless more inclined to willing virtue or sin, as well as the innocent who are incapable of understanding the choice and coherently choosing, like infants and small children, the severely mentally ill and handicapped, and those suffering dementia and Alzeimers' with age - and then those, the worst of them, who knowingly and willingly reject God and perform of the most abominable and horrific acts by their own FREE CHOICE. It seems from that parable, and a few other hints Christ lays out here and there, that this is more likely the case.

But what does and doesn't qualify?

For example, could a Hutu soldier who's been taught that Tutsis are the scum of the earth who deserve to be killed, can he when armed and ordered to kill really be said to be acting freely?

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1 hour ago, NYrepublican said:

But what does and doesn't qualify?

For example, could a Hutu soldier who's been taught that Tutsis are the scum of the earth who deserve to be killed, can he when armed and ordered to kill really be said to be acting freely?

That is not delineated in exhaustive, specific, categorized detail anywhere in lists or menus that God provides mortals. It's up to His judgement on Judgement Day. The key is to live as good a life as possible, encourage as many other people to live as good a life as possible, and promote virtuous and Godly values in a positive but not aggressive, forceful, or judgemental way, and to ask forgiveness sincerely from God when you sin (and not to consider ANY sin justifiable or righteous and thus not needing to seek forgiveness when they're committed, or, worse, taking pride in doing such because you believe they were right), and forgiving others who sin against you. That is a very large part of how Christ taught his followers to live, even though many followers of the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Mormon, Calvinist (especially Evangelical, Fundamentalist, and Dominionist) and many other large denominations do not live up to the ideals of Christ's Ministry, if one actually READS it, very well at all.

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