vcczar 0 Report post Posted August 11, 2018 I'm thinking about making a papal election scenario (at least the 1978-present scenarios). I need someone (hopefully @NYrepublican) to make the map for me and I'll do the rest of the scenario. Basically, I need a world map broken down into the following regions: Eastern Europe (Former Soviet bloc countries minus Poland + Balkans + European part of Russia) Austria Poland Switzerland Sub-Saharan Africa South American (minus Brazil) Brazil Central America + Caribbean Mexico Canada United States Australia + New Zealand + Papua New Guinea Indian Subcontinent (India + Pakistan Great Britain Ireland Northern Europe (Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Iceland, and Scandinavia) South East Asia (China + Japan + South Korea + Indonesia + Laos+ Malaysia+Philippines, etc.) France Germany Spain + Portugal Northern Africa + Middle East Italy Alternatively, if it is easier, it needn't be a world map. It could be a map that looks like a Conclave with tables and/or chairs that are used as regions instead of a map used as a region. It would suppose that Cardinals are sitting with their fellow region's cardinals, similar to how the Founding Fathers sat with their fellow state Congressmen at Independence Hall. I'm not sure if Cardinals sat in regions actually, but it could be used for the game if a map proves too difficult. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patine 35 Report post Posted August 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, vcczar said: I'm thinking about making a papal election scenario (at least the 1978-present scenarios). I need someone (hopefully @NYrepublican) to make the map for me and I'll do the rest of the scenario. Basically, I need a world map broken down into the following regions: Eastern Europe (Former Soviet bloc countries minus Poland + Balkans + European part of Russia) Austria Poland Switzerland Sub-Saharan Africa South American (minus Brazil) Brazil Central America + Caribbean Mexico Canada United States Australia + New Zealand + Papua New Guinea Indian Subcontinent (India + Pakistan Great Britain Ireland Northern Europe (Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Iceland, and Scandinavia) South East Asia (China + Japan + South Korea + Indonesia + Laos+ Malaysia+Philippines, etc.) France Germany Spain + Portugal Northern Africa + Middle East Italy Alternatively, if it is easier, it needn't be a world map. It could be a map that looks like a Conclave with tables and/or chairs that are used as regions instead of a map used as a region. It would suppose that Cardinals are sitting with their fellow region's cardinals, similar to how the Founding Fathers sat with their fellow state Congressmen at Independence Hall. I'm not sure if Cardinals sat in regions actually, but it could be used for the game if a map proves too difficult. That would be a very tricky map. Also, Sub-Saharan Africa should be subdivided a bit. The DRC, the nation in the world with the 10th-highest population of Roman Catholics in the world (by counted number, not percentage) and Nigeria, should each be their own region, and Southern Africa and East Africa, which are much more heavily, should be separated from the much more heavily-Moslem (and Oriental Orthodox Christian) West Africa and the Horn of Africa (and probably East and Southern Africa from each other), and the southern coastal parts of West Africa, also much more heavily Christian) separate from the Sahelian and Saharan parts. Also, the Vatican itself should be separate from Italy perhaps in an inset. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vcczar 0 Report post Posted August 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, Patine said: That would be a very tricky map. Also, Sub-Saharan Africa should be subdivided a bit. The DRC, the nation in the world with the 10th-highest population of Roman Catholics in the world (by counted number, not percentage) and Nigeria, should each be their own region, and Southern Africa and East Africa, which are much more heavily, should be separated from the much more heavily-Moslem (and Oriental Orthodox Christian) West Africa and the Horn of Africa (and probably East and Southern Africa from each other), and the southern coastal parts of West Africa, also much more heavily Christian) separate from the Sahelian and Saharan parts. Also, the Vatican itself should be separate from Italy perhaps in an inset. That's probably true. Ideally, I want no more than 20 regions, so however that can be best delineated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harris/Ernst 2020 0 Report post Posted August 11, 2018 I would be excited for this, I've thought about doing this before but it seems like a lot of work Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYrepublican 0 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 23 hours ago, vcczar said: I'm thinking about making a papal election scenario (at least the 1978-present scenarios). I need someone (hopefully @NYrepublican) to make the map for me and I'll do the rest of the scenario. Basically, I need a world map broken down into the following regions: Eastern Europe (Former Soviet bloc countries minus Poland + Balkans + European part of Russia) Austria Poland Switzerland Sub-Saharan Africa South American (minus Brazil) Brazil Central America + Caribbean Mexico Canada United States Australia + New Zealand + Papua New Guinea Indian Subcontinent (India + Pakistan Great Britain Ireland Northern Europe (Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Iceland, and Scandinavia) South East Asia (China + Japan + South Korea + Indonesia + Laos+ Malaysia+Philippines, etc.) France Germany Spain + Portugal Northern Africa + Middle East Italy Alternatively, if it is easier, it needn't be a world map. It could be a map that looks like a Conclave with tables and/or chairs that are used as regions instead of a map used as a region. It would suppose that Cardinals are sitting with their fellow region's cardinals, similar to how the Founding Fathers sat with their fellow state Congressmen at Independence Hall. I'm not sure if Cardinals sat in regions actually, but it could be used for the game if a map proves too difficult. I'll try to make it from a world map @Patine sent me a while back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vcczar 0 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, NYrepublican said: I'll try to make it from a world map @Patine sent me a while back. Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYrepublican 0 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 @vcczar What should I do for the Azerbaijan area? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vcczar 0 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, NYrepublican said: @vcczar What should I do for the Azerbaijan area? I guess include it with India and Iran, and the rest of the "'Stans", and call it Central Asia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYrepublican 0 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 1 minute ago, vcczar said: I guess include it with India and Iran, and the rest of the "'Stans", and call it Central Asia. Also what about mongolia? Should I include it in Russia or China? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vcczar 0 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 41 minutes ago, NYrepublican said: Also what about mongolia? Should I include it in Russia or China? Include Mongolia with China. Thanks for asking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYrepublican 0 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 1 minute ago, vcczar said: Include Mongolia with China. Thanks for asking. conclave.bmp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vcczar 0 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 28 minutes ago, NYrepublican said: conclave.bmp Looks great! I'll let you know if there are any issues. I'll do Conclave Infinity after the 1874 British election Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYrepublican 0 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 @vcczar How will you get Data and such for the scenario? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vcczar 0 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 58 minutes ago, NYrepublican said: @vcczar How will you get Data and such for the scenario? There have been some leaked ballot numbers for every Conclave since Pope John Paul I was elected in 1978. The rest will be guesses. You can usually tell who is more likely to vote for who---because of region, ideology, etc. There's an offchance that we may need to make an inset map for Italy, and break it down into North, South, and Central Italy, since they have so many cardinals. Hopefully, this can be avoided. Another option is to have circles or squares equal to the number of cardinal electors, which would be more accurate, but it would make it even more hypothetical, and require more research, but it might be a more fun game this way. Or if we can make the circles and squares look like cardinals. We would need anywhere between 100 to 120 of these, since that's about how many Cardinal Electors there usually are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patine 35 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 1 hour ago, vcczar said: There have been some leaked ballot numbers for every Conclave since Pope John Paul I was elected in 1978. The rest will be guesses. You can usually tell who is more likely to vote for who---because of region, ideology, etc. There's an offchance that we may need to make an inset map for Italy, and break it down into North, South, and Central Italy, since they have so many cardinals. Hopefully, this can be avoided. Another option is to have circles or squares equal to the number of cardinal electors, which would be more accurate, but it would make it even more hypothetical, and require more research, but it might be a more fun game this way. Or if we can make the circles and squares look like cardinals. We would need anywhere between 100 to 120 of these, since that's about how many Cardinal Electors there usually are. The problem is that Papal Conclaves are usually more like Democratic National Conventions in the 1920's. They go in with clear frontrunners, them whittle through tens to even over a hundred ballots, some very obscure candidates get mulled over, the frontrunners suggest proxies, realizing they won't get elected in their own right, and then a 'dark horse' compromise candidate usually gets elected in the end. Most 20th and 21st Century Conclaves, except probably the one that elected Benedict XVI, which was very different, were believed to be like that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vcczar 0 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 51 minutes ago, Patine said: The problem is that Papal Conclaves are usually more like Democratic National Conventions in the 1920's. They go in with clear frontrunners, them whittle through tens to even over a hundred ballots, some very obscure candidates get mulled over, the frontrunners suggest proxies, realizing they won't get elected in their own right, and then a 'dark horse' compromise candidate usually gets elected in the end. Most 20th and 21st Century Conclaves, except probably the one that elected Benedict XVI, which was very different, were believed to be like that. Yeah, the game would end with a Convention like ballot. Your goal would be to build momentum and support leading into the Conclave (Convention). It would start with the death or resignation of a Pope. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caprice 0 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 2 hours ago, vcczar said: There have been some leaked ballot numbers for every Conclave since Pope John Paul I was elected in 1978. There have? I only saw the one for Benedict's, I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vcczar 0 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Caprice said: There have? I only saw the one for Benedict's, I think. They exist. Someone wrote a book with the leaks. I read the book. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patine 35 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 20 hours ago, NYrepublican said: conclave.bmp I can't help but notice you completely ignored utterly every one of my suggestions and guidelines as though they meant nothing and weren't even brought up... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYrepublican 0 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 11 minutes ago, Patine said: I can't help but notice you completely ignored utterly every one of my suggestions and guidelines as though they meant nothing and weren't even brought up... Guidelines where exactly? I don't read every post in full. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patine 35 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 11 minutes ago, NYrepublican said: Guidelines where exactly? I don't read every post in full. These ones. On 8/10/2018 at 7:21 PM, Patine said: That would be a very tricky map. Also, Sub-Saharan Africa should be subdivided a bit. The DRC, the nation in the world with the 10th-highest population of Roman Catholics in the world (by counted number, not percentage) and Nigeria, should each be their own region, and Southern Africa and East Africa, which are much more heavily, should be separated from the much more heavily-Moslem (and Oriental Orthodox Christian) West Africa and the Horn of Africa (and probably East and Southern Africa from each other), and the southern coastal parts of West Africa, also much more heavily Christian) separate from the Sahelian and Saharan parts. Also, the Vatican itself should be separate from Italy perhaps in an inset. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYrepublican 0 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 37 minutes ago, Patine said: These ones. I was just following @vcczar's recommendations. If he so wishes to add those regions I'll add them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vcczar 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, NYrepublican said: I was just following @vcczar's recommendations. If he so wishes to add those regions I'll add them. Looking at the papal electors for 1978-2013, I have to deviate from Patine's great suggestions somewhat. I could see a divide of: Divide Sub-Saharan Africa into Sub-Saharan-African and South Africa (basically present day boundary of South Africa). One could divide Africa further along the line Patine suggests, but the number of cardinal electors are too few to divide it further. Make an inset of Italy, and divide it into three regions. See this map: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYrepublican 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2018 31 minutes ago, vcczar said: Looking at the papal electors for 1978-2013, I have to deviate from Patine's great suggestions somewhat. I could see a divide of: Divide Sub-Saharan Africa into Sub-Saharan-African and South Africa (basically present day boundary of South Africa). One could divide Africa further along the line Patine suggests, but the number of cardinal electors are too few to divide it further. Make an inset of Italy, and divide it into three regions. See this map: conclave.bmp Here you go @vcczar, the updated map. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vcczar 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2018 1 hour ago, NYrepublican said: conclave.bmp Here you go @vcczar, the updated map. Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites