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Are you renewing your PI subscription?

Are you renewing your PI subscription?  

17 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you renewing your PI subscription?



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16 hours ago, jnewt said:

I never said there was an option to "continue free and continue making substantive upgrades." I suggested asking for donations or making a kickstarter (or even charging for a 2020 update for the full-price of a regular game, rather than using a subscription). I just don't think it's great to make promises for features while people are under the impression that they'll get those features in free updates, and then switch to a subscription model. It resembles a bait-and-switch method; we've already purchased the game but it is, in a way, incomplete, since we were promised future updates. But we've already spent money on the game, so we have to keep paying so we can at least get those promised features. Again, I know there's a TON of work in making and continuously updating the game so I understand that it is necessary, I just wish there was another way.

I decided to go with updates to allow for incremental updates, instead of building up to one release in 2019. No one is requiring a subscription to keep playing the game, but I think the value of updates will show itself over time. If it isn't a good deal, people won't sign up or renew.

Anyone is welcome to make a donation by purchasing extra copies and sending us a note saying so, but I have a hard time believing that is a sustainable financial model.

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3 hours ago, Patine said:

@admin_270 Is there anyway I can use debit from a Canadian bank?

The options are all the major ones PayPal uses. I don't know if that includes certain debit cards, best way to find out is to try.

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Most likely. I don't actually play PI as much as I wish I did anymore but if it means that it will allow Anthony to focus more on the game as hes getting more revenue than I'd love that. I'm still waiting for a second round for popular vote tbh, I feel like everytime theres a large revamp or an addition like this it's like Christmas in [whatever given month that isn't December.]

 

 

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Why not go the Patreon model? I would support a patreon. It would provide continuous cash flow vs a subscription, things like feature votes, etc. Patreon allows additional donations without buying more copies. In addition, I would like to see products merged into one if possible, with scenarios for different countries, rather than needing to buy separately and install separate programs. Higher tier patreon subscribers can get all scenarios for free and access to say monthly development builds.
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Kickstarter has a very high cut, 30%, patreon has a much lower cut.

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Patreon has been recommended by others. My basic take is

1. Patreon generally involves privileged access, i.e., more content being created for Patreon subscribers. To the extent this is different from a straight up subscription, it involves more work, which means taking time away from working on features for the game.

2. Anyone can donate to the company if they like, by buying an additional copy (-ies). It's not difficult to do. Why is Patreon better in this respect? Either way, donations don't seem like a viable financial model to me.

3. I have tried feature votes before, with an optional membership called the Steering Council. The problem is that customers don't understand the complexities of development, and so having binding votes would lead to big headaches. I think having the occasional straw vote might be useful, but even then, customers start to think a result on a vote ought to lead to a feature being implemented. Again, though, I can do straw votes easily - on the forum, on Twitter, and so on. Why add Patreon?

4. You mention Patreon members getting campaigns for free. The problem is this works against the open campaign distribution philosophy of the games. I don't want to start censoring people collaborating on campaigns, including using official campaigns as the basis. The whole point of the Editor is to open up campaign development.

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2 hours ago, admin_270 said:

3. I have tried feature votes before, with an optional membership called the Steering Council. The problem is that customers don't understand the complexities of development, and so having binding votes would lead to big headaches. I think having the occasional straw vote might be useful, but even then, customers start to think a result on a vote ought to lead to a feature being implemented. Again, though, I can do straw votes easily - on the forum, on Twitter, and so on. Why add Patreon?

This, from what I've heard, is how government-funded (or semi-funded) scientific, medical, and other high-educated professional institutions feel when their funding is suddenly cut or changed based on flawed, biased, untrue, partisan, superstitious, Medievalist, corporate- or public opinion-swayed, or other non-professionally or educated sourced viewpoints, especially without consulting said institutions significantly, and then end up sabotaging major scientific, medical, technical, etc. advancements that could greatly aid the nation and the world...

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7 hours ago, admin_270 said:

Patreon has been recommended by others. My basic take is

1. Patreon generally involves privileged access, i.e., more content being created for Patreon subscribers. To the extent this is different from a straight up subscription, it involves more work, which means taking time away from working on features for the game.

2. Anyone can donate to the company if they like, by buying an additional copy (-ies). It's not difficult to do. Why is Patreon better in this respect? Either way, donations don't seem like a viable financial model to me.

3. I have tried feature votes before, with an optional membership called the Steering Council. The problem is that customers don't understand the complexities of development, and so having binding votes would lead to big headaches. I think having the occasional straw vote might be useful, but even then, customers start to think a result on a vote ought to lead to a feature being implemented. Again, though, I can do straw votes easily - on the forum, on Twitter, and so on. Why add Patreon?

4. You mention Patreon members getting campaigns for free. The problem is this works against the open campaign distribution philosophy of the games. I don't want to start censoring people collaborating on campaigns, including using official campaigns as the basis. The whole point of the Editor is to open up campaign development.

I understand you don't want to do a Patreon which I accept. I do want to point out some things which I feel you misunderstand about successful Patreons.

1: Patreon does not need new exclusive content, I'm a patreon of a few projects that does not have new exclusive content. Some developers may provide occasional beta (eg early release of next version for 1 week for bug reports), may provide WIP screenshots, or may provide, say, downloads of music that is already on youtube without advertisements. Much of what you are doing in your blog right now fits quite well with Patreon. Compared to Kickstarter, generally patreon donators are much less expecting of things. The betas are essentially opportunities for free QA.

2. It's more about a continuous revenue stream flow vs one off downloads, and it's much easier to have auto continuous payment each month vs one off donations.

3. Developers on patreon can explain why features will not make it into the next build...I've seen it happen, I haven't seen riots. Some developers I back will offer a development roadmap (which changes over time) and the ability to prioritize which features users want. They will generally work on one feature at a time (minor version each month). Others may not hold polls and will just talk about the next feature they are implementing. There is no reason why you must share a roadmap or solicit advice, it was just an option.

4. Nothing about patreon relies on exclusivity or restriction? Most developers I back either release the game for free (after a time period, like 1-2 weeks) or release the game commercially (and use patreon as a continuous revenue stream/behind the scenes here's some screenshots of stuff we are working on). Usually Patreons get development builds that are buggy so we are acting more as free QA than anything.
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On this topic, I conflated two different things which may have confused you. What I meant is I'd much rather buy a single product ("Generic Election Sim") and then buy official campaigns for each country for the single product, vs the current method of having to buy multiple products/downloads/installs. I can still mod or develop campaigns modded by others. This is a side comment that is regardless of whether you use Patreon or not. From a technical perspective, switching to a single product should in theory make things easier for you developing (although marketing it might not be as good).
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Digression aside, when I mean patreons can get campaigns free, that's unrelated to the above. It's closer to what other groups I back that use Patreon as a subscription model. They provide patreons who have paid the price of the full game the game on release, but non patreons can still buy the game on release. So the idea is that if a Patreon backs you for $25/month (which is $300/year), they would get a subscription for all of your games for free while they are a patreon, it doesn't mean preventing anything from others. Non Patreons can still buy your games one off, via subscription, and Patreons could (if successful) even pay for free subscriptions for non patreons eventually.

 

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Thanks for this info - I'll look more into Patreon. My intuition, though, remains that is would be a distraction. It might be worth trying out to see what kind of response there is.

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