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RI Democrat

C4E Proportional Representation

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I've been working on a Germany 2017 scenario and recently got this result:

1734010611_GermanResults.png.de4fd344134ee5f4533ff1a35f58afb1.png

The Left and AfD got around 11% and 14%, respectively, and the parliament had 700 seats. But the percentages of the 2nd (party) vote and the percentages of seats seem way off - the Union won 26.4% of the vote and 37% of the seats (259/700), while the SPD won 17.3% of the vote and 15% of the seats. The Greens, FDP, Left, and AfD all had a noticeably smaller share of the seats than of the 2nd vote as well. Aren't the percentages supposed to be roughly equal once the parties that miss the threshold are factored out? That's what seemed to happen in the real 2017 election:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_2017#Results

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5 minutes ago, RI Democrat said:

I've been working on a Germany 2017 scenario and recently got this result:

1734010611_GermanResults.png.de4fd344134ee5f4533ff1a35f58afb1.png

The Left and AfD got around 11% and 14%, respectively, and the parliament had 700 seats. But the percentages of the 2nd (party) vote and the percentages of seats seem way off - the Union won 26.4% of the vote and 37% of the seats (259/700), while the SPD won 17.3% of the vote and 15% of the seats. The Greens, FDP, Left, and AfD all had a noticeably smaller share of the seats than of the 2nd vote as well. Aren't the percentages supposed to be roughly equal once the parties that miss the threshold are factored out? That's what seemed to happen in the real 2017 election:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_2017#Results

Is that the 2005 version of K4E? I had to have a second look, because I use the 2009 version of the game, and the UI looks notably different.

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18 minutes ago, RI Democrat said:

I've been working on a Germany 2017 scenario and recently got this result:

1734010611_GermanResults.png.de4fd344134ee5f4533ff1a35f58afb1.png

The Left and AfD got around 11% and 14%, respectively, and the parliament had 700 seats. But the percentages of the 2nd (party) vote and the percentages of seats seem way off - the Union won 26.4% of the vote and 37% of the seats (259/700), while the SPD won 17.3% of the vote and 15% of the seats. The Greens, FDP, Left, and AfD all had a noticeably smaller share of the seats than of the 2nd vote as well. Aren't the percentages supposed to be roughly equal once the parties that miss the threshold are factored out? That's what seemed to happen in the real 2017 election:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_2017#Results

I don't know the exact numbers there, but the SPD I think should've been a bit higher and the Greens, who are polling well now, should've been lower. 

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28 minutes ago, RI Democrat said:

I've been working on a Germany 2017 scenario and recently got this result:

1734010611_GermanResults.png.de4fd344134ee5f4533ff1a35f58afb1.png

The Left and AfD got around 11% and 14%, respectively, and the parliament had 700 seats. But the percentages of the 2nd (party) vote and the percentages of seats seem way off - the Union won 26.4% of the vote and 37% of the seats (259/700), while the SPD won 17.3% of the vote and 15% of the seats. The Greens, FDP, Left, and AfD all had a noticeably smaller share of the seats than of the 2nd vote as well. Aren't the percentages supposed to be roughly equal once the parties that miss the threshold are factored out? That's what seemed to happen in the real 2017 election:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_2017#Results

Does the game use hangover seats?  In real life, parties can gain extra seats so their representation is close to where the vote was.

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2 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

Does the game use hangover seats?  In real life, parties can gain extra seats so their representation is close to where the vote was.

It does indeed, but the AI has a few odd ways of calculating them, here and there. Also, in my West Germany 1949 scenario for K4E, I had an Independent "party" (I use the word loosely), led by Ludwig Erhard, because they had a lot of candidates in that first election, and three of them got elected, and Erhard himself became Finance Minister in Adenauer's first cabinet, but I tried to offset the PR vote by dividing ALL of (50%-50%) between the CDU and the SPD, with none stated as going to the Independents, because they're only supposed to be able win the constituency seats at best, but they still had a large percentage of the PR vote and about 20+ PR seats regardless, which was kind of annoying, as it grossly distorted the results, given three parties who historically got seats were shut out of the Bundestag because of this.

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2 hours ago, Patine said:

Is that the 2005 version of K4E? I had to have a second look, because I use the 2009 version of the game, and the UI looks notably different.

It says "Chancellor Forever 2009" when I start it up. Though I also always get a "List Index Out of Bounds" error when the application first loads (which doesn't seem to affect anything).

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Just now, RI Democrat said:

It says "Chancellor Forever 2009" when I start it up. Though I also always get a "List Index Out of Bounds" error when the application first loads (which doesn't seem to affect anything).

it needs to be launched with admin rights

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Thanks, though it seems unlikely that running it as a non-admin is what would cause the proportional formula to calculate incorrectly. I'm considering just throwing this out and doing it as a PMI scenario with an Excel sheet attached if there is no way to get the game to apportion the seats proportionally instead of doing...whatever it's doing.

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2 hours ago, RI Democrat said:

Thanks, though it seems unlikely that running it as a non-admin is what would cause the proportional formula to calculate incorrectly. I'm considering just throwing this out and doing it as a PMI scenario with an Excel sheet attached if there is no way to get the game to apportion the seats proportionally instead of doing...whatever it's doing.

It causes issues with some files it utilizes try running it as admin and see what happens.

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2 hours ago, RI Democrat said:

Thanks, though it seems unlikely that running it as a non-admin is what would cause the proportional formula to calculate incorrectly. I'm considering just throwing this out and doing it as a PMI scenario with an Excel sheet attached if there is no way to get the game to apportion the seats proportionally instead of doing...whatever it's doing.

I'm not considering such a solution. Too crude - and it doesn't jell with the AI pursuing their party electoral goals or recognition of whether they're actually leading or not, and thus they'd behave in a really screwy manner. I will continue to use K4E for scenario I make using an MPP electoral system for the foreseeable future.

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46 minutes ago, Patine said:

I'm not considering such a solution. Too crude - and it doesn't jell with the AI pursuing their party electoral goals or recognition of whether they're actually leading or not, and thus they'd behave in a really screwy manner. I will continue to use K4E for scenario I make using an MPP electoral system for the foreseeable future.

I know, though I could try to compensate by giving, for example, the CDU/CSU an absurdly high seat goal, or the FDP the goal of reaching a certain percentage rather than winning any seats. I'll try NYRepublican's suggestion of running it as an admin first though. (I probably also need to tweak some things so that the Greens and FDP don't do quite as well as they did in that screenshot.)

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Tried again after reinstalling the K4E application and running as an admin, and the results still seem screwy. For example, there was one state where the CDU/CSU won 33% of the party vote and 15 out of 35 seats, and the overall totals also overrepresented them and underrepresented everyone else. There was even a state where the AfD (cringe) narrowly won the party vote (double cringe) and they still were apportioned 8 out of 40 seats while the CDU/CSU got 16 out of 40.

Is it possible that the game has some sort of "cap" on how many extra seats it adds per state? One thing that could be skewing it is that the CDU/CSU wins a vast majority of the FPTP seats - in the state with 35 seats, for example, they won all 15 of the FPTP seats. Mathematically, the correct way to compensate would have been to go up to 45 seats since 15/45 = 33%, but maybe the game doesn't allow that.

If this isn't fixable, I'll have to go to my backup plan of using PMI, giving the parties goals that reflect their standing in the FPTP seats, and using a spreadsheet to calculate the proportional vote.

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Something is definitely off - I played the 2009 scenario as the SPD, just barely beat the CDU/CSU in percentages of the vote, and yet I ended up with 207 seats to their 213.

I guess I'll have to go with the PMI plus an Excel sheet plan.

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1 hour ago, RI Democrat said:

Something is definitely off - I played the 2009 scenario as the SPD, just barely beat the CDU/CSU in percentages of the vote, and yet I ended up with 207 seats to their 213.

I guess I'll have to go with the PMI plus an Excel sheet plan.

I don't like such a clumsy and disjointed plan. I will continue to make scenarios with appropriate electoral systems by K4E.

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19 hours ago, Patine said:

I don't like such a clumsy and disjointed plan. I will continue to make scenarios with appropriate electoral systems by K4E.

I understand, but if K4E can't even reliably award the largest number of seats to the party with the largest number of votes, I just don't feel like there's much point. Plus, it seems like not many people are interested in K4E scenarios.

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4 hours ago, RI Democrat said:

I understand, but if K4E can't even reliably award the largest number of seats to the party with the largest number of votes, I just don't feel like there's much point. Plus, it seems like not many people are interested in K4E scenarios.

Also, I haven't been getting this problem myself to any noteworthy degree. Given there's been no updates or other official external alternations to K4E for over 8 years, I'm wondering if you're scenario is where the issue lay.

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8 hours ago, Patine said:

Also, I haven't been getting this problem myself to any noteworthy degree. Given there's been no updates or other official external alternations to K4E for over 8 years, I'm wondering if you're scenario is where the issue lay.

I thought that might be the case, but the most recent anomalous result was with the official 2009 scenario, not with mine.

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