Jump to content
270soft Forum
jnewt

Forum Constitutional Convention Proposals and Discussion

Recommended Posts

I would like to hear whether or not our esteemed hard conservative delegate, @Reagan04, has a rebuttal to my statement to debunk the "uniquely American nature of executive veto" and that it would be "utterly UnAmerican to even consider abandoning," or if he will concede further debate on that issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, NYrepublican said:

First up

Motion to introduce a Unicameral legislature with an MMP voting system elected every 4 years during midterms sponsored by Patine and Me.

Debate starts now.

I think it would be best (time-wise) if we just debated all of the proposals together instead of one by one. Afterwards, I'll post a separate post with a poll containing all the proposals.

 

As for this specific proposal, I support it. I think we need to specify what the term limits would be as well. I would suggest limiting members of congress (whether the Senate, House, or a potential new unicameral legislature) to a total of 18 years in that chamber.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, jnewt said:

I think it would be best (time-wise) if we just debated all of the proposals together instead of one by one. Afterwards, I'll post a separate post with a poll containing all the proposals.

 

 As for this specific proposal, I support it. I think we need to specify what the term limits would be as well. I would suggest limiting members of congress (whether the Senate, House, or a potential new unicameral legislature) to a total of 18 years in that chamber.

4 and a half terms?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

4 and a half terms?

Half-term aren't good. That'll make for a swamping of constant special elections. The term-limits should be in solid terms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I probably won't comment until the end of this project. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Patine said:

I would like to hear whether or not our esteemed hard conservative delegate, @Reagan04, has a rebuttal to my statement to debunk the "uniquely American nature of executive veto" and that it would be "utterly UnAmerican to even consider abandoning," or if he will concede further debate on that issue.

Sure, the entire construction of the American Government, while pulled from other areas and great thinkers, was as a whole the first of its kind put into place. The Checks and Balances enumerated in the Constitution are masterful constructions of both their and our time and I will not stand to see them gutted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

4 and a half terms?

My mistake. I forgot you proposed 4 year terms. How about a 3 term limit for Senators, a 9 term limit for representatives, and a 4 term limit if we adopt your unicameral legislature proposal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, jnewt said:

My mistake. I forgot you proposed 4 year terms. How about a 3 term limit for Senators, a 9 term limit for representatives, and a 4 term limit if we adopt your unicameral legislature proposal?

Agreed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

Sure, the entire construction of the American Government, while pulled from other areas and great thinkers, was as a whole the first of its kind put into place. The Checks and Balances enumerated in the Constitution are masterful constructions of both their and our time and I will not stand to see them gutted.

But can you articulate the specific need and benefits, or detriments if abandoned, to governance if the Presidential veto were removed without just obliquely praising the wisdom of the Founding Fathers and the glory of the American governmental system?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Patine said:

But can you articulate the specific need and benefits, or detriments if abandoned, to governance if the Presidential veto were removed without just obliquely praising the wisdom of the Founding Fathers and the glory of the American governmental system?

I did, Checks and Balances are an incredibly important thing to preserve. We can't afford to declaw one of the branches of one of its checks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Reagan04 said:

I did, Checks and Balances are an incredibly important thing to preserve. We can't afford to declaw one of the branches of one of its checks.

"Checks and balance" are a generic and open-ended political term. Why is the veto an absolutely essential and non-negotiable check and balance, specifically, that couldn't be replaced with another one or balanced in governance in another way that didn't potentially give the President such a heavy-handed, at times, even authoritarian tool? Why is the veto specifically, amongst checks and balances, sacred and not to be reconsidered, replaced, or changed to a different form, in your mind, is what I'm asking?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jnewt said:

My mistake. I forgot you proposed 4 year terms. How about a 3 term limit for Senators, a 9 term limit for representatives, and a 4 term limit if we adopt your unicameral legislature proposal?

I think it would be better if term limit for senators are down to two. six years is a long time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, POLITICALBOMB said:

I think it would be better if term limit for senators are down to two. six years is a long time.

Having a separate Senate, or having a unicameral Congress, is on the list for debate itself, if you look.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, POLITICALBOMB said:

I think it would be better if term limit for senators are down to two. six years is a long time.

No

2 hours ago, Patine said:

Having a separate Senate, or having a unicameral Congress, is on the list for debate itself, if you look.

Just got here my man what's happened so far

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, NYrepublican said:

Debate starts now

The Agenda

  • Unicameral legislature with MMP voting system elected every 4 years during midterms (Patine and NYrepublican)
  • Universal adult suffrage (Patine)
  • Remove age requirements, slavery related things(NYRepublican, Ido)
  • Term limits for Congress(Patine)
  • Voter initiative to call referendums to challenge congressional laws(Patine)
  • Give President a line item veto(Jnewt)
  • Have districts drawn by an independent commission(JNewt)
  • Have districts drawn using the split line method(NYRepublican)
  • Ranked choice voting in all federal elections.(JNewt)
  • Forbid Governors from making temporary appointments to Congress; instead, require an automatic special election to be held within 6 months of a seat becoming vacant (unless an election is already scheduled to take place within 6 months) (JNewt)
  • Eliminate presidential vetoes replace with "sober second review"(Patine)
  • Define copyright as 50 years MAX.

First up

Motion to introduce a Unicameral legislature with an MMP voting system elected every 4 years during midterms sponsored by Patine and Me.

Debate starts now.

@ThePotatoWalrus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

I challenge @Patine or @NYrepublican to an arm wrestle with the stakes being an MMP electoral voting system.

Challenges of martial prowess or physical feats of power to determine political questions is the domain of barbarians and savages.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Patine said:

Challenges of martial prowess or physical feats of power to determine political questions is the domain of barbarians and savages.

Besides he's in Ohio I'm in NY and you're in Canada.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

Besides he's in Ohio I'm in NY and you're in Canada.

Alright, let's ditch the parochial view of geographical referencing, especially given Canada's geographically bigger than the U.S. Either say "Besides he's in Ohio I'm in NY and you're in Alberta" or "Besides he and I are in different parts of the U.S. and you're in Canada." You'll sound more educated and worldly that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Patine said:

Alright, let's ditch the parochial view of geographical referencing, especially given Canada's geographically bigger than the U.S. Either say "Besides he's in Ohio I'm in NY and you're in Alberta" or "Besides he and I are in different parts of the U.S. and you're in Canada." You'll sound more educated and worldly that way.

I forgot where in Canada you lived so I couldn't say the latter which I intended to say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, NYrepublican said:

I forgot where in Canada you lived so I couldn't say the latter which I intended to say.

It's not like I don't bring up my home province in these forums CONSTANTLY...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Patine said:

Challenges of martial prowess or physical feats of power to determine political questions is the domain of barbarians and savages.

Sounds like something you'd say if you knew you'd lose.

2 hours ago, Patine said:

It's not like I don't bring up my home province in these forums CONSTANTLY...

Idk if that's sarcasm but I honestly had no idea either. 

Also I 100% support the new copyright law and universal suffrage laws so you can add my name in support of those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, sorry for missing the proposal session.

  • Support. Multiparty systems are better for democracy. Perhaps also a minimum parliament size would be good to add on.
  • Support. Voting rights should be supported for an unbiased view of the population.
  • Support. People should be allowed to elect who they want, and slavery is bad.
  • Oppose. People should be allowed to vote for who they want.
  • Support. Voters should be allowed to vote for what they want if their representative is not what they thought. Perhaps also adding a right of recall would be good to add on.
  • Oppose. See second-to-last point.
  • Oppose. See below.
  • Support. Taking districting out of human hands is the most foolproof solution.
  • Oppose if amendable, else support. I feel Condorcet or Range or some other method might be better (also, RCV technically refers to a range of methods).
  • Support. Democracy, yay! Perhaps allow a member to choose a substitute (that can be recalled) to fill a vacancy during the 6-month period
  • Support. A group is more likely to find the best solution than an individual.
  • Support. 50 years should be enough to incentivize new work, and allow more freedom of thought.

Not too experienced with this stuff, but here's what I came up with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vote here

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

voting for article 1 is still up and will remain up, but feel free to make your proposals on Article 2 now, here are mine:

  • award electoral college votes proportionally (with a minimum threshold of 10% in order to win any EVs)
  • hold presidential elections every six years and prohibit the President from running for reelection (though allow for non-consecutive terms)
  • abolish the office of Vice President
  • establish a new line of succession where the President is followed by the Vice President (if said office is not abolished) and then the members of the cabinet (in the order their positions were created)
  • The president must fill all open vacancies in all areas in which he or she can make an appointment. The president has 90 days to make a nomination, and Congress has 90 days to hear and confirm/deny or the position is automatically confirmed.
  • Presidential recall: In order to initiate a recall election, at least one Congressmember from a majority of states must sponsor a petition (or petitions) signed by an amount of people greater than 50% of that state's voters in the previous Presidential election. If these criteria are met, a recall election will be held with the winner serving the balance of the term.
  • Trigger a special election whenever a non-nationwide-elected official (e.g. Speaker of the House or Secretary of State) ascends to the Presidency (unless it is within one year of a scheduled election)
  • remove the words "natural born citizen" from Section 1 Clause 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×