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יִשְׂרָאֵל‬  

23 members have voted

  1. 1. Does Israel Have a Right to Exist?

    • Yes, Israel has a right to exist.
    • No, Israel has no right to exist.
    • No Opinion/Undecided/Prefer not to answer
      0
    • Other (Explain below)
  2. 2. Should we fund Israel?

    • Yes, Israel is an ally and beacon of Democracy in the Middle East.
    • No, Israel is extorting us for money, and is an unreliable ally.
    • No Opinion/Undecided/Prefer not to answer
    • Other (Explain below)
  3. 3. How should the Israeli-Palestinian conflict be solved?

    • The land belongs to Israel (including Palestine)
    • The land belongs to Palestine (Including Israel)
    • The current two-state solution works fine
    • No Opinion/Undecided/Prefer not to answer
    • Other (Explain below)


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Due to the current dispute heating up between Israel and Iran, with anti-Israel rallies and protests, and Israel blaming Iran, I wanted to gauge the view of the majority of people on this forum on Israel.

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20 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Due to the current dispute heating up between Israel and Iran, with anti-Israel rallies and protests, and Israel blaming Iran, I wanted to gauge the view of the majority of people on this forum on Israel.

This question is too complex, deep-seated, convoluted, and difficult with too much blood of innocents, blame, and intractable attitudes on both sides for binary answers. I refuse to give binary answers on this issue (and quite a few other prevalent issues of today) and have great disdain for those satisfied with, and, worse yet, insisting from others, simplistic binary answers on this issues (and quite a few other important issues of today). Purge the Manichaean mentality!

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Just now, Patine said:

This question is too complex, deep-seated, convoluted, and difficult with too much blood of innocents, blame, and intractable attitudes on both sides for binary answers. I refuse to give binary answers on this issue (and quite a few other prevalent issues of today) and have great disdain for those satisfied with, and, worse yet, insisting from others, simplistic binary answers on this issues (and quite a few other important issues of today). Purge the Manichaean mentality!

Guess what?

(There's an other option just for you buddy)

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Just now, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Guess what?

(There's an other option just for you buddy)

I saw that, but you know by now that's NEVER enough for me...

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Just now, Patine said:

I saw that, but you know by now that's NEVER enough for me...

Just another clarification my G.

arrows.png

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1 minute ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Guess what?

(There's an other option just for you buddy)

Besides, all three "other" options say "(explain)." Well - I've explained....

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1 minute ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Just another clarification my G.

arrows.png

And I just clicked the three "other" options now.

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Just now, Patine said:

And I just clicked the three "other" options now.

I understand that this issue is too complex and controversial for binary answers, but I guarantee you no two people feel the exact same way about the conflict, making it impossible to provide enough answers for everybody to agree with 100%.

But now I'm actually curious as to how you would attempt to resolve the Israel-Palestine conflict, if you could - and if at all possible - it'd be nice to see a summary of your response on at least one of the above questions.

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1 minute ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

I understand that this issue is too complex and controversial for binary answers, but I guarantee you no two people feel the exact same way about the conflict, making it impossible to provide enough answers for everybody to agree with 100%.

But now I'm actually curious as to how you would attempt to resolve the Israel-Palestine conflict, if you could - and if at all possible - it'd be nice to see a summary of your response on at least one of the above questions.

I'm afraid, at this point, there are many possible solutions, but they are near impossible to implement while Hard Islamist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah hold tremendous sway among Palestinians and Revisionist Zionist parties (like Likud and their "natural coalition allies") have such sway in Israel. Even though they're certainly far from perfect, post-Arafat Fateh and the Israeli Labour Party having the reigns of power were actually making progress toward peace and a workable two-state solution (and that was even when Bush was U.S. President). But all that went out the window, and the extremists came to effective power on both sides and dug in their battle lines.

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

I'm afraid, at this point, there are many possible solutions, but they are near impossible to implement while Hard Islamist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah hold tremendous sway among Palestinians and Revisionist Zionist parties (like Likud and their "natural coalition allies") have such sway in Israel. Even though they're certainly far from perfect, post-Arafat Fateh and the Israeli Labour Party having the reigns of power were actually making progress toward peace and a workable two-state solution (and that was even when Bush was U.S. President). But all that went out the window, and the extremists came to effective power on both sides and dug in their battle lines.

That's actually a good analysis.

Serious question: What stopped you from going into politics?

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Just now, ThePotatoWalrus said:

That's actually a good analysis.

Serious question: What stopped you from going into politics?

Social awkwardness, to be honest. I can preach on my soapbox ad nasuem on the Internet, or to friends, family, and acquaintances - but I just CAN'T do it in front of a big crowd.

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2 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

That's actually a good analysis.

Serious question: What stopped you from going into politics?

Maybe starting a political blog is more realistic for me.

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5 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

That's actually a good analysis.

Serious question: What stopped you from going into politics?

And there's also the part that my particular political beliefs would mean I'd have to be an Independent or found my own (probably marginal) political party. And though I may preach a good sermon against the "big party establishment," I don't realistically think I'd be a "giantkiller" candidate.

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4 minutes ago, Patine said:

Social awkwardness, to be honest. I can preach on my soapbox ad nasuem on the Internet, or to friends, family, and acquaintances - but I just CAN'T do it in front of a big crowd.

I love speaking in front of a lot of people, but I don't like talking to waiters or cashiers and stuff lmao.

4 minutes ago, Patine said:

Maybe starting a political blog is more realistic for me.

You could do it. Still wanna see a "Patine explains why you're wrong"

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Id probably implement a one state solution along the lines of Caroline Glicks in her book the Israeli solution which Bolton and Pence both praised.

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1- Yes Israel has a right to exist but so does Palestine 

2- No we shouldn't funding them for the same reason we shouldn't fund Saudi Arabia, or any other state that abuses human rights (let alone has a  a Hitleresque politicians in high positions of power)

 

3- The 1948 plan is the only humane plan as it guarantees both nations a right to exist and doesn't reward Israel for conquering it's neighbors.

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9 minutes ago, WVProgressive said:

1- Yes Israel has a right to exist but so does Palestine 

2- No we shouldn't funding them for the same reason we shouldn't fund Saudi Arabia, or any other state that abuses human rights (let alone has a  a Hitleresque politicians in high positions of power)

 

3- The 1948 plan is the only humane plan as it guarantees both nations a right to exist and doesn't reward Israel for conquering it's neighbors.

The 2nd video is libelous I've done reserach on Moshe Feiglin he's a libertarian and isn't the "messianic theocrat" as it was put by a liberal TV host. 

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10 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

The 2nd video is libelous I've done reserach on Moshe Feiglin he's a libertarian and isn't the "messianic theocrat" as it was put by a liberal TV host. 

Well it is a bit old, maybe he changed his opinion over time. Could you find me an article backing this up?

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3 hours ago, NYrepublican said:

Id probably implement a one state solution along the lines of Caroline Glicks in her book the Israeli solution which Bolton and Pence both praised.

I think a one-state solution completely ignores fundamental elements of the problem and pretends they'll magically go away, when they'll only become exacerbated. Proposed solutions in these kinds of situations where one side gets everything they demand and cedes nothing (or practically so) and the other side is stuck with the reverse are almost always proposals for wish fulfilment and nothing more realistic.

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2 minutes ago, Patine said:

I think a one-state solution completely ignores fundamental elements of the problem and pretends they'll magically go away, when they'll only become exacerbated. Proposed solutions in these kinds of situations where one side gets everything they demand and cedes nothing (or practically so) and the other side is stuck with the reverse are almost always proposals for wish fulfilment and nothing more realistic.

Never read it but I think that one-state solution thing he's talking about is a proposed situation where both countries are unified under Israel, but the Palestinians are granted full citizenship and rights.

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6 minutes ago, WVProgressive said:

Well it is a bit old, maybe he changed his opinion over time. Could you find me an article backing this up?

Moshe Feiglin has a documentary. I don't have time to find it now. I'll get back to you ina  few days.

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4 hours ago, NYrepublican said:

Id probably implement a one state solution along the lines of Caroline Glicks in her book the Israeli solution which Bolton and Pence both praised.

 

1 minute ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Never read it but I think that one-state solution thing he's talking about is a proposed situation where both countries are unified under Israel, but the Palestinians are granted full citizenship and rights.

I believe the Israeli irredentists have to come to terms with the fact that, indeed, the political and demographic situation in the Levant actually DID change over about 2500 years...

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4 minutes ago, Patine said:

I believe the Israeli irredentists have to come to terms with the fact that, indeed, the political and demographic situation in the Levant actually DID change over about 2500 years...

 

I wish I could like this comment

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@ThePotatoWalrus @Patine @NYrepublican

Both people have a right to their own separate, independent nations. The nation's should be split according to where the populations are. Places with more Palestinians than Israeli's should be part of Palestine, and places with more Israelis than Palestinians should be be part of Israel. However, a majority Israeli or majority Palestinian town could opt to be part of the other country. Population would be based off the latest census, to prevent a Bleeding Kansas episode. I think letting the people decide would be better than letting the leaders decide in this regard. We should fund Israel and Palestine equally. We should promise defense only to the side that is attacked by the other. Any political party advocating extermination or removal of Israelis or Palestinians will be condemned by the US and UN and funding, aid, and support will be cut off to these countries if they are led by these parties. Those desiring of, tolerant of, genocide are no better than Nazis. Anyone not condemning Israeli or Palestinian parties that view genocide as an acceptable policy are no better than Nazis. 

 

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