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vcczar

Trump Pardon Poll

Trump Pardon Poll  

16 members have voted

  1. 1. Does Trump have the right to pardon himself?

  2. 2. If Trump pardons himself will it cause a Constitutional Crisis?

    • Yes, we aren't a democracy if a President can pardon himself.
    • No, Presidents have special powers, and it should stay that way.
  3. 3. If Trump pardons himself would your opinion of him decrease?

    • No, it would increase.
      0
    • Yes, but I would still favor him as a president, and support him for another term over a Democrat.
    • Yes, but I would hope he would not run for reelection or that a Republican challenges him. If renominated, I would support Trump, reluctantly.
    • Yes, and while I supported Trump in 2016 and/or during his presidency, I will not support him if he pardons himself.
      0
    • No, because my opinion of him can't be any lower.
    • Yes, and I didn't view him favorably or support him before he pardoned himself.


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Topical poll. Trump claims he has the right to pardon himself (which makes him sound guilty). Some believe that he has, while others do not. 

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In my opinion, this exposes yet another flaw in our Constitution. 

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@vcczar, I'm curious as to why you think the president can pardon himself. Not trying to attack you, just curious.

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1 hour ago, vcczar said:

Topical poll. Trump claims he has the right to pardon himself (which makes him sound guilty). Some believe that he has, while others do not. 

The United States is NOT a Monarchy or a Theocracy. For it's government officials, EVEN it's head-of-state, to enjoy protections, immunities, and mechanisms to neopotistically have their guilt absolved or to shut down legitimate investigation into alleged wrongdoing they may or may have committed, and to require a special procedure (the political circus that is impeachment and Senate trial) all instead of the SAME due process that any other citizen is subject to by law, is, and has been from the start, a violation of the vaunted "republic' ideal and of the ideal of any government who Constitutionally are supposed to represent, be empowered by, and serve their people as opposed to serving "in their right" like an absolute or traditional monarchy does.

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I think the pardon power is a necessary check on the mob. For example, most wouldn't have pardoned Nixon and moved the country past watergate but Gerald Ford did. The pardon power allows for a sort of check on the rule of the mob.

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1 minute ago, NYrepublican said:

I think the pardon power is a necessary check on the mob. For example, most wouldn't have pardoned Nixon and moved the country past watergate but Gerald Ford did. The pardon power allows for a sort of check on the rule of the mob.

I disagree. It's become a corrupt  tool of nepotisitic favour-trading and Machiavellian scheming and almost never serves the nation or people anymore.

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Also, @Reagan04's answers are downright frightening. To a very dark place I think he is headed, and I must admit, I'm concerned...

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4 minutes ago, Patine said:

Also, @Reagan04's answers are downright frightening. To a very dark place I think he is headed, and I must admit, I'm concerned...

Ok bud.

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30 minutes ago, Sunnymentoaddict said:

@vcczar, I'm curious as to why you think the president can pardon himself. Not trying to attack you, just curious.

The Constitution says that president has the power to pardon people for Federal crimes, it doesn't mention any instance that he can't. The only time he can't pardon is during an impeachment. He can preemptively pardon himself. 

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@Sunnymentoaddict (and I'll tag @Patine as well), This doesn't meant that I think the president should have that power. It's a flaw in the Constitution--one of a few that still exist. 

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9 minutes ago, vcczar said:

The Constitution says that president has the power to pardon people for Federal crimes, it doesn't mention any instance that he can't. The only time he can't pardon is during an impeachment. He can preemptively pardon himself. 

I think he doesn't have that power because if he could it'd undermine the whole institution.

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6 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

I think he doesn't have that power because if he could it'd undermine the whole institution.

I agree that it undermines things, but the Constitution legally allows him to undermine the whole institution. That's the problem. Congress needs to pass an amendment or create a court ruling before he has a chance to pardon himself. 

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10 hours ago, vcczar said:

I agree that it undermines things, but the Constitution legally allows him to undermine the whole institution. That's the problem. Congress needs to pass an amendment or create a court ruling before he has a chance to pardon himself. 

Yep. Those small government conservatives are going to stand up to a man saying the executive branch is above the rule of law, and exercise their part in the separation of powers. Today will be the day, I tell you!



 

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1 hour ago, Sunnymentoaddict said:

Yep. Those small government conservatives are going to stand up to a man saying the executive branch is above the rule of law, and exercise their part in the separation of powers. Today will be the day, I tell you!



 

The problem in the U.S. is that these abuses of Constitutional power depend on whose doing them, and what they're party is, as despicable as that is. Republicans let Bush, in the day, trample the U.S. Constitution like a worn rug, and then railed against Obama for doing far less, or, God-forbid, carrying on certain Bush policies in a few areas. I'd like to know (an honest answer), would @ThePotatoWalrus,  @Reagan04, and @Conservative Elector 2 have voted the same way on Answer #2 if we were talking about Obama or Clinton at the moment. And I mean, an HONEST answer.

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59 minutes ago, Patine said:

The problem in the U.S. is that these abuses of Constitutional power depend on whose doing them, and what they're party is, as despicable as that is. Republicans let Bush, in the day, trample the U.S. Constitution like a worn rug, and then railed against Obama for doing far less, or, God-forbid, carrying on certain Bush policies in a few areas. I'd like to know (an honest answer), would @ThePotatoWalrus,  @Reagan04, and @Conservative Elector 2 have voted the same way on Answer #2 if we were talking about Obama or Clinton at the moment. And I mean, an HONEST answer.

If you want an honest answer so I have to say probably not, I don't know. Call me biased. I am no constitutional expert, but if the constitution grants this special right I would have to accept that for Obama as well. 

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Any President can pardon themselves. Obama could do it even easier than Trump or Hillary could though. If Trump or Hillary did it the other party would absolutely demolish them and it would definitely damage their ratings.

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4 hours ago, Patine said:

The problem in the U.S. is that these abuses of Constitutional power depend on whose doing them, and what they're party is, as despicable as that is. Republicans let Bush, in the day, trample the U.S. Constitution like a worn rug, and then railed against Obama for doing far less, or, God-forbid, carrying on certain Bush policies in a few areas. I'd like to know (an honest answer), would @ThePotatoWalrus,  @Reagan04, and @Conservative Elector 2 have voted the same way on Answer #2 if we were talking about Obama or Clinton at the moment. And I mean, an HONEST answer.

Of course, the Constitution doesn't change whomever is holding the office. I don't even like the guy. I think if he did pardon himself that he'd have to resign in disgrace, but the fact remains that any President has the power to do so and the clarification that one can't should be done through constitutional amendment.

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19 hours ago, Patine said:

Also, @Reagan04's answers are downright frightening. To a very dark place I think he is headed, and I must admit, I'm concerned...

I figured he was as much of a fascist as his leaders!

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Trump has the power, but it would only be wise to use it in a select few cases (such as the judiciary blatantly attacking the President with the sole purpose of removing him from office).  If the President is guilty, then it wouldn't be wise to use.

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7 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

Trump has the power, but it would only be wise to use it in a select few cases (such as the judiciary blatantly attacking the President with the sole purpose of removing him from office).  If the President is guilty, then it wouldn't be wise to use.

The U.S. Presidents deserves no more immunities or protections from common justice or criminal investigation, special procedures around (i.e. the political circus called impeachment that is all politics and favour trading and has absolutely NOTHING to do with justice whatsoever), or mechanisms to derail investigation and justice into alleged crimes, any more than any other American citizen legally does. To say otherwise is to say the U.S. President is inherently greater than other U.S. citizens, and thus in the effective rank of a feudal lord, monarch, or theocrat, regardless of how the President is chosen or any other limits that may or may not be on their power. PERIOD!

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1 hour ago, Patine said:

The U.S. Presidents deserves no more immunities or protections from common justice or criminal investigation, special procedures around (i.e. the political circus called impeachment that is all politics and favour trading and has absolutely NOTHING to do with justice whatsoever), or mechanisms to derail investigation and justice into alleged crimes, any more than any other American citizen legally does. To say otherwise is to say the U.S. President is inherently greater than other U.S. citizens, and thus in the effective rank of a feudal lord, monarch, or theocrat, regardless of how the President is chosen or any other limits that may or may not be on their power. PERIOD!

I agree which is why I said that the power to pardon oneself should only be used if/when the judiciary is attempting to perform a coup.

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5 hours ago, Wiw said:

I figured he was as much of a fascist as his leaders!

I am far less authoritarian than you have proven yourself to be. Furthermore, if you'd care to hear it, I explained that while he has the power to do it, he shouldn't and that power should be removed.

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5 hours ago, Wiw said:

I figured he was as much of a fascist as his leaders!

 

9 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

I am far less authoritarian than you have proven yourself to be. Furthermore, if you'd care to hear it, I explained that while he has the power to do it, he shouldn't and that power should be removed.

As much as I've had many disagreements and lack of seeing eye-to-eye with @Reagan04, even very sharp ones and ones that will likely never be resolved by agreement, and even though I said I was "concerned" by his world view, I feel blatantly calling him a "fascist" is complete out-of-line @Wiw.

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