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New Historical President RP

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1 hour ago, Kingthero said:

1973 AMENDMENT Vote Phase

 

Event 1 Amendment Votes: 

 

(insertvotehere) "...Senate Bill 04, which officially devolves all matters of creationism versus evolution to the States, while also banning the criminal prosecution of those who teach something their state does not agree with at that level."

Proposed by the Conservatives

 

@Hestia11 @Reagan04 @WVProgressive @Edouard

For Amendment votes, only the party leaders get to make significant whipping. For bill/Amendment votes, other players may be able to influence.

 

Party leaders are determined by who wins their party primaries.

OOC: This sounds like the kind of amendment, in terms of @Reagan04's alternation, that's just a compromise down from something that, in fact, Mussolini, Antonescu, or Schuschnigg would wish for, and believe justified - "Christian" (notice the quotation marks) Fascism!

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17 hours ago, Kingthero said:

1973 AMENDMENT Vote Phase

 

Event 1 Amendment Votes: 

 

(insertvotehere) "...Senate Bill 04, which officially devolves all matters of creationism versus evolution to the States, while also banning the criminal prosecution of those who teach something their state does not agree with at that level."

Proposed by the Conservatives

 

@Hestia11 @Reagan04 @WVProgressive @Edouard

For Amendment votes, only the party leaders get to make significant whipping. For bill/Amendment votes, other players may be able to influence.

 

Party leaders are determined by who wins their party primaries.

John Turner IV takes a stand from his friend-opponent 

John : I understand the claim from Liberals and Socialists.

States have the right to do what they want according to me, however, a state of the union can't ban the most precious liberties of our country and if it has to be then we should push this kind of state out of our union.

Founding fathers were fighting for liberty, spirit of liberty is everyday threatened.

I do not want that Women been teached they were created to serve in a religious way just because the local state thinks that way independently of what the women want to learn, I guess my speech about Woman's rights is still accurate seemed the internal division within our party. A light smile on the lips.

According to me the federal state is not often a greater protector of freedom, but it has one principle asset. It's larger than some religious states.

Religious have the right to believe in Bible's creationnism or Darwinism, Non-Religious have also the right to believe in modern evolution or creationnism, (as clear majority of Americans are christians).

This amendment seems, according to me, the bad idea to create more liberties.

I would personnaly wish a bill where people HAVE THE RIGHT TO DECIDE WHICH WAY OF CREATIONNISM OR EVOLITION THEY WANT TO LEARN INSTEAD OF THE STATE (this is the proposal that's why I use major chars 😛

If we truly believe that sovereignty is in American's hands, here's the only true solution.

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14 hours ago, WVProgressive said:

The Socialist Labor Party Central Committee issues an internal order to all SLP members of congress to oppose the amendment, and whips members of congress to vote for the original bill.

The Soc Lab whips get to work on these positions.

OOC: This is just me confirming I support this course of action.

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1973 Vote Phase

 

The Amendment to SB.4 failed.

 

(InsertVote) SB.4: "...which officially devolves all matters of creationism versus evolution to the States, while also banning the criminal prosecution of those who teach something their state does not agree with at that level."

(InsertVote) HB.4: "... establishes a national healthcare system with no private options."

(InsertVote) HB.5: "...establishes healthcare for children, the elderly, and the disabled."

 

Whips/Influencer Ping

 

@Hestia11 @Alexak1209 @Reagan04 @WVProgressive @MBDemSoc @Edouard @NYConservative

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15 minutes ago, Kingthero said:

(Aye) SB.4: "...which officially devolves all matters of creationism versus evolution to the States, while also banning the criminal prosecution of those who teach something their state does not agree with at that level."

(Nay) HB.4: "... establishes a national healthcare system with no private options."

(Aye) HB.5: "...establishes healthcare for children, the elderly, and the disabled."

President's Actions with his Liberal supporters in Congress.

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44 minutes ago, Kingthero said:

1973 Vote Phase

 

The Amendment to SB.4 failed.

 

(Aye) SB.4: "...which officially devolves all matters of creationism versus evolution to the States, while also banning the criminal prosecution of those who teach something their state does not agree with at that level."

(Aye) HB.4: "... establishes a national healthcare system with no private options."

(Aye) HB.5: "...establishes healthcare for children, the elderly, and the disabled."

 

Whips/Influencer Ping

 

@Hestia11 @Alexak1209 @Reagan04 @WVProgressive @MBDemSoc @Edouard @NYConservative

 

OOC: Voted aye on Both HB.4 and HB.5 in case of either bill falling.

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49 minutes ago, Kingthero said:

1973 Vote Phase

 

The Amendment to SB.4 failed.

 

(Aye) SB.4: "...which officially devolves all matters of creationism versus evolution to the States, while also banning the criminal prosecution of those who teach something their state does not agree with at that level."

(Aye) HB.4: "... establishes a national healthcare system with no private options."

(Aye only if HB.4 fails, Nay otherwise.) HB.5: "...establishes healthcare for children, the elderly, and the disabled."

 

Whips/Influencer Ping

 

@Hestia11 @Alexak1209 @Reagan04 @WVProgressive @MBDemSoc @Edouard @NYConservative

The Central Committee instructs members to vote for SB.4, and HN.4, and only vote for HB.5 if HB.4 failed.

 

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1 hour ago, Kingthero said:

1973 Vote Phase

 

The Amendment to SB.4 failed.

 

(InsertVote) SB.4: "...which officially devolves all matters of creationism versus evolution to the States, while also banning the criminal prosecution of those who teach something their state does not agree with at that level."

(InsertVote) HB.4: "... establishes a national healthcare system with no private options."

(InsertVote) HB.5: "...establishes healthcare for children, the elderly, and the disabled."

 

Whips/Influencer Ping

 

@Hestia11 @Alexak1209 @Reagan04 @WVProgressive @MBDemSoc @Edouard @NYConservative

The Conservatives will work to make sure that all of these bills fail. This includes killing them in the Senate on a 3/5ths majority vote if it must come to that. Our pundits and other PR people take to the media to decry the Socialist-Liberal takeover of our healthcare and education systems.

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4 hours ago, Kingthero said:

1973 Vote Phase

 

The Amendment to SB.4 failed.

 

(InsertVote) SB.4: "...which officially devolves all matters of creationism versus evolution to the States, while also banning the criminal prosecution of those who teach something their state does not agree with at that level."

(InsertVote) HB.4: "... establishes a national healthcare system with no private options."

(InsertVote) HB.5: "...establishes healthcare for children, the elderly, and the disabled."

 

Whips/Influencer Ping

 

@Hestia11 @Alexak1209 @Reagan04 @WVProgressive @MBDemSoc @Edouard @NYConservative

SB.4 : John Turner I will neither vote for neither against, people have the right to decide about their school, the state hasn't to force. However this law is less toxic for liberties than previous bill so abstention.

HB.4 Say bye bye to millions of private healthcare experts and let's include a lign which says that the USA will join a Communist country too. Vote against.

HB.5 Tough question, however healthcare is the first thing that local communities have to settle together. I am personnaly in defavour of this bill because it's local and not national right. The federal government hasn't to decide about it but I will abstain myself from voting to show my solidarity forward the most vulnerables even if I think we're not at all helping them by this proposal.

If locals want public healthcare, they have to pay taxs, those who do not want free healthcare and who assume its cost should not be prevented of their property right or we're burning our precious Constitution.

(I love playing a libertarian god 😛)

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7 minutes ago, Edouard said:

HB.4 Say bye bye to millions of private healthcare experts and let's include a lign which says that the USA will join the Soviet Union too. Vote against.

OOC: The Soviet Union doesn't exist, I don't quite know what the state of the world as a whole outside America truly is, but I think Russia's still a monarchy. @Kingthero

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Just now, WVProgressive said:

OOC: The Soviet Union doesn't exist, I don't quite know what the state of the world as a whole outside America truly is, but I think Russia's still a monarchy. @Kingthero

OOC Résultat de recherche d'images pour "pikachu meme"

I have been cheated! He said foreign policy didn't that much changed 😢 

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2 minutes ago, Kingthero said:

Yea Russia is an OP monarchy

OOC I changed for Communist country or regime 

But still you deserve Pikachu

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24 minutes ago, Kingthero said:

Yea Russia is an OP monarchy

OOC: I'm not sure how the Tsars have realistically kept power till the '70's. They were really on the ropes as it was going into WW1 - the conflict just gave a final push to an impending inevitability.

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2 minutes ago, Patine said:

OOC: I'm not sure how the Tsars have realistically kept power till the '70's. They were really on the ropes as it was going into WW1 - the conflict just gave a final push to an impending inevitability.

This RP has been around since the beginning; without a balance of power in Europe, there have been no crucial chokepoints for the monarchy of Russia, let alone of Europe. Without an internationalist U.S, there has not been as much of a democratic influence abroad, either.

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Though, I will say, things ought to change soon, especially with what happens in decolonization, which imperial ambitions have blocked.

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5 minutes ago, Kingthero said:

This RP has been around since the beginning; without a balance of power in Europe, there have been no crucial chokepoints for the monarchy of Russia, let alone of Europe. Without an internationalist U.S, there has not been as much of a democratic influence abroad, either.

OOC: Is that what you believe was the source of democratic and revolutionary movements in Europe - so profound, that if withdrawn, would never had gotten a foothold? I recommend some serious reading on late 18th to early 20th Century European political history. You're obviously completely undereducated there, and filling in the blanks with fallacious nationalistic tropes and myths - like that ALL democratic and constitutional government emanates only from a source in the United States, and was a completely unique innovation there...

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1973 Results Phase

 

(Passes House 72%, Passes Senate 66/104) SB.4: "...which officially devolves all matters of creationism versus evolution to the States, while also banning the criminal prosecution of those who teach something their state does not agree with at that level."

(Fails House 29%) HB.4: "... establishes a national healthcare system with no private options."

(Passes House 61%, Fails Senate 49/104) HB.5: "...establishes healthcare for children, the elderly, and the disabled."

 

American Polling will occur AFTER the President acts.

@Hestia11

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7 minutes ago, Kingthero said:

This RP has been around since the beginning; without a balance of power in Europe, there have been no crucial chokepoints for the monarchy of Russia, let alone of Europe. Without an internationalist U.S, there has not been as much of a democratic influence abroad, either.

How industrialized is Russia if I may ask? Are most european nations still monarchies?

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26 minutes ago, Patine said:

OOC: Is that what you believe was the source of democratic and revolutionary movements in Europe - so profound, that if withdrawn, would never had gotten a foothold? I recommend some serious reading on late 18th to early 20th Century European political history. You're obviously completely undereducated there, and filling in the blanks with fallacious nationalistic tropes and myths - like that ALL democratic and constitutional government emanates only from a source in the United States, and was a completely unique innovation there...

You are wrong, and making false assumptions about the origin of the whole RP's storyline, as well as my interpretation of history.

 

Firstly, France and Napoleon won the Napoleonic Wars, creating an autocratic regime that stretched for decades under a false-sense monarchy. Europe, in general, had no drastic urge to reform between now and the second point.

 

Secondly, the European War in the late 1800s that was similar to the Franco-Prussian war led to a clash between monarchies and socialist dictatorships (France and Italy). These dictatorships lasted a couple decades until French Monarchists successfully retook control of France, leaving Italy, Greece, and Poland as the last non-monarchies in Europe (all socialist dictatorships). Mexico also had a socialist coup, which eventually to the establishment of a Constitutional Monarchy.

 

Next, the U.S. followed a path of imperialism instead of internationalism, choosing to annex Puerto Rico and Cuba into the Union. The country also chose to back the European monarchs in taking over Poland. When the U.S. and Japan entered a war over Japanese expansion (and the attempted assassination of the U.S. President), the U.S. chose to hold various territories gained throughout this war. 

 

During this time, Republics did begin to form, notably Austria-Hungary turning into a Republic as the biggest power doing so. Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Belgium, and the later combined Scandinavia of Sweden also became Republics.

 

The weakening of the checks and balances in Asia caused China to gain much power, as it never had the Opium Wars or the Japanese to stunt their progress. Although culturally similar to that of the Qing dynasty, their manpower was enough to establish a firm stronghold over most of Asia.

 

Russia, on the otherhand, ended up in a superalliance with China against Europe, as the two nations planned to split the mega-continent. A proxy war broke out in Turkey, where European and U.S. forces managed to hold back the Russians and Chinese and establish a stalemate in the regions.

 

In summary, many of the hotpoints in our actual history that accelerated the spread of democracies across Europe just did not happen. However, after the huge proxy war, eventually the lack of wars, mixed with the growing discontent among colonies, will lead to a sense of internationalism that may also accelerate the abolition of various monarchies. For this RP, the monarchy issue was and still is planned to develop over the late 70s and 80s as decolonization and the question of how big of a role a monarch can play in a modern world is addressed.

 

@Edouard this will also help sum up foreign policy points

@WVProgressive to answer your question, Russia and the U.S. are virtually neck and neck, with the U.S. ahead due to its strong economy right now.

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30 minutes ago, Kingthero said:

1973 Results Phase

 

(Passes House 72%, Passes Senate 66/104) SB.4: "...which officially devolves all matters of creationism versus evolution to the States, while also banning the criminal prosecution of those who teach something their state does not agree with at that level."

(Fails House 29%) HB.4: "... establishes a national healthcare system with no private options."

(Passes House 61%, Fails Senate 49/104) HB.5: "...establishes healthcare for children, the elderly, and the disabled."

 

American Polling will occur AFTER the President acts.

@Hestia11

The President will sign into law the first bill, and will lament the loss of the third bill but says that some things take time to get done.

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35 minutes ago, Kingthero said:

You are wrong, and making false assumptions about the origin of the whole RP's storyline, as well as my interpretation of history.

 

Firstly, France and Napoleon won the Napoleonic Wars, creating an autocratic regime that stretched for decades under a false-sense monarchy. Europe, in general, had no drastic urge to reform between now and the second point.

 

Secondly, the European War in the late 1800s that was similar to the Franco-Prussian war led to a clash between monarchies and socialist dictatorships (France and Italy). These dictatorships lasted a couple decades until French Monarchists successfully retook control of France, leaving Italy, Greece, and Poland as the last non-monarchies in Europe (all socialist dictatorships). Mexico also had a socialist coup, which eventually to the establishment of a Constitutional Monarchy.

 

Next, the U.S. followed a path of imperialism instead of internationalism, choosing to annex Puerto Rico and Cuba into the Union. The country also chose to back the European monarchs in taking over Poland. When the U.S. and Japan entered a war over Japanese expansion (and the attempted assassination of the U.S. President), the U.S. chose to hold various territories gained throughout this war. 

 

During this time, Republics did begin to form, notably Austria-Hungary turning into a Republic as the biggest power doing so. Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Belgium, and the later combined Scandinavia of Sweden also became Republics.

 

The weakening of the checks and balances in Asia caused China to gain much power, as it never had the Opium Wars or the Japanese to stunt their progress. Although culturally similar to that of the Qing dynasty, their manpower was enough to establish a firm stronghold over most of Asia.

 

Russia, on the otherhand, ended up in a superalliance with China against Europe, as the two nations planned to split the mega-continent. A proxy war broke out in Turkey, where European and U.S. forces managed to hold back the Russians and Chinese and establish a stalemate in the regions.

 

In summary, many of the hotpoints in our actual history that accelerated the spread of democracies across Europe just did not happen. However, after the huge proxy war, eventually the lack of wars, mixed with the growing discontent among colonies, will lead to a sense of internationalism that may also accelerate the abolition of various monarchies. For this RP, the monarchy issue was and still is planned to develop over the late 70s and 80s as decolonization and the question of how big of a role a monarch can play in a modern world is addressed.

 

@Edouard this will also help sum up foreign policy points

@WVProgressive to answer your question, Russia and the U.S. are virtually neck and neck, with the U.S. ahead due to its strong economy right now.

I admit, I had not closely followed 90+ pages of storyline, and was responding to one post of yours that seemed, as worded, simplistically stating what I had assumed. While there do still seem to be a few important historical factors neglected or underestimated (or even overestimated) in your narrative, I will concede your storyline is much more comprehensive and thought-out than the simple post I was responding seemed to indicate from a superficial reading. I apologize for making a large, accusatory assumption based on only that.

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Just now, Patine said:

I admit, I had not closely followed 90+ pages of storyline, and was responding to one post of yours that seemed, as worded, simplistically stating what I had assumed. While there do still seem to be a few important historical factors neglected or underestimated (or even overestimated) in your narrative, I will concede your storyline is much more comprehensive and thought-out than the simple post I was responding seemed to indicate from a superficial reading. I apologize for making a large, accusatory assumption based on only that.

And I admit that since VCC started the first half and I have ended the second half, there are multiple holes where things could or could not have happened. 

 

But overall, it is a roleplay, not meant to depict reality.

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End of 1973; Public Opinion Polls


The President: 52%

Liberal Party: 58%

Conservative Party: 58%

Socialist Party: 22%

Libertarian Party: 7% (for user-friendly purposes, this number nearly doubled)

--------------------------------------------------------------

SB.4 Public Support: 55%

HB.4 Public Support: 18%

HB.5 Public Support: 61%

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The President holds a speech saying that the passage of HB5 is why we need Liberal Senators and Representatives in power.

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