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Wiw

Is nobody going to bring up gun control?

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You'd think someone would, when schools are up in arms about it! February 14, 2018, seventeen teenagers are gunned down in a building meant for education. What's the government doing about it, and all the other gun-related incidents? Nothing, not a thing, because they cling so dearly to their Second Amendment. Well, from a country that actually HAS gun control, I don't like it. I don't like your policy and I don't like no-win situations. Especially situations that innocent citizens are getting butchered in. Don't you want to stop this madness? Don't you care about what's happening over there? Because I do, I care a lot!

Someone wrote an essay on the issue that sums it up a lot better than I can.

http://archiveofourown.org/works/13861056

Of course, this being a totalitarian leadership, I don't expect much to change.

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Lol, boi. Trump literally said he was going to ban bump stocks, raise the age to buy firearms, and increase background checks to buy firearms.

If anything a totalitarian would take away people's guns, but that ain't none of my business.

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1 hour ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Lol, boi. Trump literally said he was going to ban bump stocks, raise the age to buy firearms, and increase background checks to buy firearms.

If anything a totalitarian would take away people's guns, but that ain't none of my business.

A REALLY clever, Machiavellian, Orwellian totalitarian would let the population arm themselves to the teeth, then use their inevitable violence and chaos as a casus belli for draconian, knee-jerk counter regulations, and bring in a high-tech, mechanized armed forces with a LOT more than just firearms to enforce them. But, hey, I write fiction - don't listen to me... :P

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Well ok, I'll give you that. But this time I'm not blaming Trump, I'm blaming the rest of the government for not taking it seriously. We all knew the score, and most of them weren't interested!

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3 hours ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

raise the age to buy firearms

That is the dumbest idea proposed in this debate. Just do as State Sen.Addabbo suggested and lock the doors from the inside during the day or have some sign-in thing it'd allow a far more efficent response. and make it harder to do.

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13 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

That is the dumbest idea proposed in this debate. Just do as State Sen.Addabbo suggested and lock the doors from the inside during the day or have some sign-in thing it'd allow a far more efficent response. and make it harder to do.

Yes, because students LOVE feeling, more and more, like they're in prison. It leads to better focus and studious habits, obviously... :P

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

Yes, because students LOVE feeling, more and more, like they're in prison. It leads to better focus and studious habits, obviously... :P

Here's the excerpt from the Queens Chronicle

State Sen. Joe Addabbo Jr. (D-Howard Beach) tries to visit every school in his district, and has noticed one difference between getting into the private and public institutions. At the private schools, he has to be buzzed in or announced at the door. But when he goes to the public ones, the front doors are open. On top of that, he sometimes walks a “significant” distance before reaching a school safety agent. “To me, that is a major problem,” Addabbo said in an interview. “You’re sometimes well into the school before you even come in contact with the security guard.” His solution? Lock the doors. "We can do this tomorrow,” the senator, the ranking member of the Education Committee, said.

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35 minutes ago, Patine said:

Yes, because students LOVE feeling, more and more, like they're in prison. It leads to better focus and studious habits, obviously... :P

It really isn't a problem at all, just lock the doors and require a lanyard to get in, or maybe have a beeper one can press at the front desk. The fact that anyone can just waltz into an average American High School is absurd.

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Even though I'm progressive on most policies, I think in regards to school shootings and other shootings, that mental health should be the primary focus, and guns should be secondary. I think more much funding for mental health, easier access to cheap and effective medication, more awareness of mental health issues, etc. will likely do a lot more in preventing these massacres. Banning guns, as much as I wish guns were illegal, isn't going to prevent school shootings, just as the War on Drugs has probably helped create more problems than alleviated any situations. I like the idea of banning types of guns and raising the minimum age for purchases, and I hope they do it, but I don't think this will stop anyone willing to commit these crimes. Grade school education should really have some anti-bullying initiatives that are effective as well. 

Would Conservatives agree to a massive increase in spending for mental health in exchange for Liberals laying off the gun issue? If so, this can't be an Obamacare half-assed over-compromised health bill. It needs to be inexpensive for everyone with mental health issues, even if it may be expensive for the government. It's time we think about others that are not ourselves or our immediate family. Being a good American is partially a community-based effort, what the Founders called "the commonweal." 

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6 hours ago, NYrepublican said:

That is the dumbest idea proposed in this debate. 

To elaborate on this

I believe that if someone is a citizen and has voting rights they should have all rights of a citizen including the right to bear arms,drink etc. I think the "get part of it at 18 and the rest at 21 but you're still a citizen" attitude is ridiculous.

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18 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

To elaborate on this

I believe that if someone is a citizen and has voting rights they should have all rights of a citizen including the right to bear arms,drink etc. I think the "get part of it at 18 and the rest at 21 but you're still a citizen" attitude is ridiculous.

The modern libertarian view of inalienable rights has completely ignored, brushed aside, and shown utter derision to the flipside of the concept that it's original ideologues like Locke, Montague, and even Benjamin Franklin believed and promoted in their day - personal responsibility and discretion in exercising those rights. But, alas, all three of those men envisioned a mature, self-reliant, educated, and morally upstanding society to apply their beliefs to...

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Just now, Patine said:

The modern libertarian view of inalienable rights has completely ignored, brushed aside, and shown utter derision to the flipside of the concept that it's original ideologues like Locke, Montague, and even Benjamin Franklin believed and promoted in their day - personal responsibility and discretion in exercising those rights. But, alas, all three of those men envisioned a mature, self-reliant, educated, and morally upstanding society to apply their beliefs to...

How does that dispute my point exactly?

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Just now, NYrepublican said:

How does that dispute my point exactly?

Why do I have to spoon feed so much to you?

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

Why do I have to spoon feed so much to you?

From what I can tell you're arguing that rights should be excercised cautiously, that doesn't dispute my point that such rights should exist if one is a citizen. Furthermore, based on what I can tell you're argument doesn't give any good reason why age would be related to that.

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1 minute ago, NYrepublican said:

From what I can tell you're arguing that rights should be excercised cautiously, that doesn't dispute my point that such rights should exist if one is a citizen. Furthermore, based on what I can tell you're argument doesn't give any good reason why age would be related to that.

Well, it's been medically and psychologically proven that adolescents, because they're hormones and brain chemistry in a transitional stage of development between childhood and adulthood that accompanies other phases of puberty, are well known to be much more impulsive, prone to unnecessary risk-taking, having a distorted view of consequences of their actions, tending to be more prone to emotion rather than reason as a factor in decision-making, and having, generally, a distorted sense of judgement. No offense to the majority of posters here - just quoting proven facts.

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2 minutes ago, Patine said:

Well, it's been medically and psychologically proven that adolescents, because they're hormones and brain chemistry in a transitional stage of development between childhood and adulthood that accompanies other phases of puberty, are well known to be much more impulsive, prone to unnecessary risk-taking, having a distorted view of consequences of their actions, tending to be more prone to emotion rather than reason as a factor in decision-making, and having, generally, a distorted sense of judgement. No offense to the majority of posters here - just quoting proven facts.

I presume you believe citizenship should not be bestowed until age 25 since brain developement doesn't end until then.

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6 hours ago, Patine said:

Yes, because students LOVE feeling, more and more, like they're in prison. It leads to better focus and studious habits, obviously... :P

Apparently locking doors is strictly prison routine.

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17 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

I presume you believe citizenship should not be bestowed until age 25 since brain developement doesn't end until then.

I could see societal benefits from such an ideal, although I'm not strictly aligned to it being adopted (even though I'd have nothing to lose, myself).

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On 3/4/2018 at 5:49 AM, Wiw said:

You'd think someone would, when schools are up in arms about it! February 14, 2018, seventeen teenagers are gunned down in a building meant for education. What's the government doing about it, and all the other gun-related incidents? Nothing, not a thing, because they cling so dearly to their Second Amendment. Well, from a country that actually HAS gun control, I don't like it. I don't like your policy and I don't like no-win situations. Especially situations that innocent citizens are getting butchered in. Don't you want to stop this madness? Don't you care about what's happening over there? Because I do, I care a lot!

Someone wrote an essay on the issue that sums it up a lot better than I can.

http://archiveofourown.org/works/13861056

Of course, this being a totalitarian leadership, I don't expect much to change.

not giving up my rights because of the failure of the fbi and david hagg is a asshole for defending the coward pussy officer THAT DIDNT DO HIS JOB.

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On 3/4/2018 at 8:47 AM, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Lol, boi. Trump literally said he was going to ban bump stocks, raise the age to buy firearms, and increase background checks to buy firearms.

The first two proposals don't change any of the actual issues - they're just things that liberals say to make themselves appear to have good ideas and a commitment to gun control. Bumper stocks are not necessary for mass shootings or for even emulating the style of shooting they enable (it can be done without them), and raising the age is common sense enough, I suppose, but people well into their latter 20s have conducted school shootings in the past decade, so that won't be stopping anything. "Increase background checks" is a mostly empty statement without policy specifics.

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On 3/4/2018 at 7:26 PM, Patine said:

The modern libertarian view of inalienable rights has completely ignored, brushed aside, and shown utter derision to the flipside of the concept that it's original ideologues like Locke, Montague, and even Benjamin Franklin believed and promoted in their day - personal responsibility and discretion in exercising those rights. But, alas, all three of those men envisioned a mature, self-reliant, educated, and morally upstanding society to apply their beliefs to...

Something.. something... "works on paper"

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4 hours ago, Lyly said:

Something.. something... "works on paper"

Inalienable rights guaranteed with absolutely NO safeguard or check against the abuses and chaos flagrantly caused by their applications with no responsibility or even cultural incentive to responsibility DOESN'T even work on paper, let alone in reality, as you can see in the news constantly.

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5 hours ago, Patine said:

Inalienable rights guaranteed with absolutely NO safeguard or check against the abuses and chaos flagrantly caused by their applications with no responsibility or even cultural incentive to responsibility DOESN'T even work on paper, let alone in reality, as you can see in the news constantly.

unitl the '70's studens in rural america carried guns to school and put them in lockers, iuntil 1969 every NYC Public school had  a shooting club. There were few shootings then. Thus, the number of guns is not related to shooting numbers.

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5 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

unitl the '70's studens in rural america carried guns to school and put them in lockers, iuntil 1969 every NYC Public school had  a shooting club. There were few shootings then. Thus, the number of guns is not related to shooting numbers.

After that point, American culture and media ramped up the glorification, romanticization, and iconic core nature to American identity of unrestrained gun violence used with impunity. Regardless of how distasteful or overwhelming a task that may be, THAT has to, in some way, shape, or form, be tackled and addressed as a key part of addressing gun violence in the U.S., because like it or not, and legally and officially acknowledge it or not, it's big part of the heart and soul of the problem.

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21 hours ago, Patine said:

Inalienable rights guaranteed with absolutely NO safeguard or check against the abuses and chaos flagrantly caused by their applications with no responsibility or even cultural incentive to responsibility DOESN'T even work on paper, let alone in reality, as you can see in the news constantly.

Lmao. When has this system ever been tested? Unlike Communism and Socialism, an unregulated libertarian society has never been tested. Prove me wrong.

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