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Best/Worst President Since WWII

Best/Worst President Since WWII  

32 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is the Best President Since WWII? (You can select more than one if you are conflicted)

  2. 2. Who is the worst president since WWII (You can pick more than one if you are conflicted)



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2 hours ago, NYrepublican said:

What did trump quite do?

Are you asking about this past week or his entire "presidency" :P.

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Here's the net rankings so far:

Eisenhower +8

LBJ +6 ( @Presidentinsertname's main man)

Kennedy +5

Truman +4

Clinton +2

Reagan +1

Nixon +1

Ford -2

Obama -3

Bush I -4

Carter -5

Trump -9

Bush II -11

 

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2 hours ago, vcczar said:

Here's the net rankings so far:

Eisenhower +8

LBJ +6 ( @Presidentinsertname's main man)

Kennedy +5

Truman +4

Clinton +2

Reagan +1

Nixon +1

Ford -2

Obama -3

Bush I -4

Carter -5

Trump -9

Bush II -11

 

The "Quartet of the Best of Leftism" as I like to call them consists of Wilson, FDR, LBJ, and Obama. Interesting to see how the latter two place. Needless to say these are my 4 least favorite Presidents.

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2 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

The "Quartet of the Best of Leftism" as I like to call them consists of Wilson, FDR, LBJ, and Obama. Interesting to see how the latter two place. Needless to say these are my 4 least favorite Presidents.

Well only 3 out of 4 those are actually left-wing. 

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Just now, WVProgressive said:

Well only 3 out of 4 those are actually left-wing. 

I'm guessing Wilson is your dissension? 

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1 minute ago, Reagan04 said:

I'm guessing Wilson is your dissension? 

Nope (though he was a white supremacist) it's Obama.

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Just now, WVProgressive said:

Nope (though he was a white supremacist) it's Obama.

And why might you say that Obama isn't a leftist? Is it a semantic issue because he certainly is a progressive and really only ever was a maverick on Foreign Affairs although that seemed to just be a "Teenage Rebellion" phase in 2011-2013 when it flared up.

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1 minute ago, Reagan04 said:

And why might you say that Obama isn't a leftist? Is it a semantic issue because he certainly is a progressive and really only ever was a maverick on Foreign Affairs although that seemed to just be a "Teenage Rebellion" phase in 2011-2013 when it flared up.

Drone warfare, healthcare mandate (that Nixon and the heritage fecundation pushed for), Guantanamo Bay is still open, he started 7 different interventions in office, we are still in Iraq ad Afghanistan. If I think of others I'll come back but off the top off my head that's it.

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Just now, WVProgressive said:

Drone warfare, healthcare mandate (that Nixon and the heritage fecundation pushed for), Guantanamo Bay is still open, he started 7 different interventions in office, we are still in Iraq ad Afghanistan. If I think of others I'll come back but off the top off my head that's it.

That doesn't make him not a Leftist. Having a maverick issue like Foreign Policy doesn't automatically stop that. He was EXTREMELY Leftist on Social Issues like abortion and weed come to mind. Marriage as well. He also greatly expanded Government Welfare and Obamacare is nothing but Liberal. His Economic and Social Policy was a left Leftist thing and he was very sheepish towards ISIS, he just had to keep fighting what he was given, and do remember he greatly reduced our presence in Iraq even as Petraeus had broken in and we were winning. This is very similar to Vietnam, a Republican President leaves office winning a war that was unpopular because we were losing and the activists still thought we were, we start winning again and then the big time anti-war fellows politicize the heck out of a war and lose it for us. Obama did just that. He was nothing but a Left-Winger my friend.

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2 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

His Economic and Social Policy was a left Leftist thing

Well social policy yes but he was a center right neo-liberal on economic issues.

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Just now, WVProgressive said:

Well social policy yes but he was a center right neo-liberal on economic issues.

I'm going to have to disagree, he was very much in favor of raising Taxes, increasing Welfare spending, and bringing us closer to socialized healthcare.

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1 minute ago, Reagan04 said:

bringing us closer to socialized healthcare.

He had goddamned super majority and didn't even get us a public option. where are you getting your facts?

3 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

raising Taxes

He made the Bush tax cuts for the super rich permanent and the stimulus almost all tax cuts (not to say this wasn't a good thing or the most part). 

5 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

increasing Welfare spending

He cut food stamps by nearly 9 billion dollars.

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1 minute ago, WVProgressive said:

He had goddamned super majority and didn't even get us a public option. where are you getting your facts?

He made the Bush tax cuts for the super rich permanent and the stimulus almost all tax cuts (not to say this wasn't a good thing or the most part). 

He cut food stamps by nearly 9 billion dollars.

First of all, he had a super majority in neither chamber, so your facts are just as questionable as mine:P And second of all the public option comes when you can't pay for it and the government foots the bill which is the reason why Obamacare spending is ballooning to unsustainable levels.

Let me list you all of his tax hikes:

  1. 156% increase in Tobacco Excise Tax (Not necessarily saying it's a bad thing but it is a tax hike nonetheless)
  2. Obamacare Individual Mandate Income Surtax of 3%
  3. Obamacare Employer Mandate Tax
  4. 3.8% Tax on Investment Income
  5. 40% Cadillac Tax (How is that for cozying up to the rich)
  6. 2.35% Obamacare Payroll tax hike
  7. Medicine Cabinet Tax hike of 5 billion dollars
  8. HSA Withdrawal hike of 1.4 billion
  9. 10% Excise tax on indoor tanning (Maybe this is why Trump ran and hated on Obama:P)
  10. 24 billion dollar increase on a type of bio-fuel
  11. Elimination of up to 11 billion dollars in deductions plus the Lois Lerner nonsense

That was just the major stuff. He grew the Government not just in taxes but with all kinds of fancy regulations and programs. And of course he ballooned the debt compiling more of it than the United States had from George W. to George W. This is because of his HUGE Spending in the field of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Obamacare, many of which are recurring one time charges and not a constant stream of money flowing out from the Government. Medicare Part B alone has exceeded its projections by about 163 Billion dollars while Obamacare will have lasting costs netting us trillions of dollars in losses. Obama's rapid growth of these big 4 has rendered them unstable, destabilizing an already shaky at best solvency sending it into a spiral of insolvency. In 40 years from now, those big 4 are expected to cost more than ALL the money collected in taxes and that is without the next 2 biggest costs, defense and debt interest. Japan has a debt crisis worse than us with what is called a "two-pan" debt payment where all the money they pay on their debt exceeds all the money they take in so a little bit of their interest and everything else the government spends money on is all borrowed on a second "pan". This is where Obama has taken America on a full steam ahead course. These four programs are already a majority of our government spending. The amount of tax increases needed to balance this are simply unfathomable, even with a 100% tax on the top 1% who already pay a cool 37% of all taxes we would only get about 600 Billion, the top 10%, well they already pay 71% of all taxes. 47% of Americans pay no taxes and they certainly would start to have to. We just can't do this any other way than increasing taxes on the Upper, Middle, and Lower classes. It is a legacy of Big Government and a fate of a Grave buried 6 feet deep in I.O.U.s. 

There is your Obama.

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@Reagan04 

I would be somewhere between you and @WVProgressive in my opinion of how left Obama is. 

First let me define "leftist" as someone that is Left to Far-left, rather than someone that is center-left or left-leaning. I believe the Obama swung between Center-left and Left, which means at best he was a half-leftist, by my definition. In an interview Obama even said that Nixon was more left than him on several issues. 

In foreign policy and his defense of Wall Street, he was not a "leftist". In social policy and economics, he generally stopped short of his leftist campaign rhetoric. Just as Ronald Reagan was "rightist" in rhetoric, he was often more center-right in practice. Obama was similar in this. However, Reagan04 is right in that Obama raised taxes, which is probably his most "leftist" area. Healthcare and Social Security have been popular programs, especially since Obama's been out of office. Obama was also very hesitant on some leftist social issues, such as Gay Marriage. Meanwhile, Biden supported it way before Obama officially did. Overall, the best measure of telling if Obama is a Leftist is to see how elated his base was during his presidency. While he was popular, he consistently disappointed his supporters (myself included) by going only halfway on campaign promises, compromising on them to the point of not really fulfilling a campaign promise, or not doing anything at all. 

Of your quartet of leftists. I like all of them except for Wilson. I think he's overrated. I think FDR is the only president on par with Lincoln for presidential greatness, despite some bad decisions, but Lincoln made mistakes, too. LBJ would rank close to them if not for Vietnam. LBJ classifies as a one-term president, so I'll at least say that he's the greatest one-term president in our history, outshining the flashier, and more likable JFK. I think Wilson, FDR and LBJ were far more leftist than Obama, so I don't think Obama counts with that group. He'd be in the next tier potentially. 

JFK, who was cobbling together much of LBJ's Great Society, could probably be considered more leftist than Obama; although, he didn't get to act on it since he was killed. While JFK did lower taxes, it was still kept high (I think even I might have lowered the tax rate at that point had I lived at that time). JFK operated somewhat moderately his first term to keep Southern Democrats somewhat supportive of him, as he ran for his second term, which was when he expected to unleash Civil Rights, Medicare, Medicaid. RFK was part of the team working on methods for a War on Poverty, etc. People that say JFK wasn't a progressive are incorrect. JFK likely would have raised taxes once his programs were implemented too. 

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The fact that LBJ is the second disgusts me. LBJ was a vile racist who is accredited with the Civil Rights Bill, as if he made it himself, lmao.

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5 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

The fact that LBJ is the second disgusts me. LBJ was a vile racist who is accredited with the Civil Rights Bill, as if he made it himself, lmao.

What, other than falsified quotes, makes you think he was a racist.

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8 minutes ago, WVProgressive said:

What, other than falsified quotes, makes you think he was a racist.

It wasn't just LBJ, but the Democratic Party in general. Coming from the South, LBJ was just more prone to it.

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13 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

It wasn't just LBJ, but the Democratic Party in general. Coming from the South, LBJ was just more prone to it.

That doesn't answer my question though that's just a statement without any evidence to back it up (note I'm not saying there were no racist democrats in positions of power Robert Byrd is a pristine example).

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21 hours ago, Wiw said:

Human rights abuses! Not to mention, don't insult him unless you want to keep a job!

lol ok

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23 hours ago, Reagan04 said:

First of all, he had a super majority in neither chamber, so your facts are just as questionable as mine:P And second of all the public option comes when you can't pay for it and the government foots the bill which is the reason why Obamacare spending is ballooning to unsustainable levels.

Let me list you all of his tax hikes:

  1. 156% increase in Tobacco Excise Tax (Not necessarily saying it's a bad thing but it is a tax hike nonetheless)
  2. Obamacare Individual Mandate Income Surtax of 3%
  3. Obamacare Employer Mandate Tax
  4. 3.8% Tax on Investment Income
  5. 40% Cadillac Tax (How is that for cozying up to the rich)
  6. 2.35% Obamacare Payroll tax hike
  7. Medicine Cabinet Tax hike of 5 billion dollars
  8. HSA Withdrawal hike of 1.4 billion
  9. 10% Excise tax on indoor tanning (Maybe this is why Trump ran and hated on Obama:P)
  10. 24 billion dollar increase on a type of bio-fuel
  11. Elimination of up to 11 billion dollars in deductions plus the Lois Lerner nonsense

That was just the major stuff. He grew the Government not just in taxes but with all kinds of fancy regulations and programs. And of course he ballooned the debt compiling more of it than the United States had from George W. to George W. This is because of his HUGE Spending in the field of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Obamacare, many of which are recurring one time charges and not a constant stream of money flowing out from the Government. Medicare Part B alone has exceeded its projections by about 163 Billion dollars while Obamacare will have lasting costs netting us trillions of dollars in losses. Obama's rapid growth of these big 4 has rendered them unstable, destabilizing an already shaky at best solvency sending it into a spiral of insolvency. In 40 years from now, those big 4 are expected to cost more than ALL the money collected in taxes and that is without the next 2 biggest costs, defense and debt interest. Japan has a debt crisis worse than us with what is called a "two-pan" debt payment where all the money they pay on their debt exceeds all the money they take in so a little bit of their interest and everything else the government spends money on is all borrowed on a second "pan". This is where Obama has taken America on a full steam ahead course. These four programs are already a majority of our government spending. The amount of tax increases needed to balance this are simply unfathomable, even with a 100% tax on the top 1% who already pay a cool 37% of all taxes we would only get about 600 Billion, the top 10%, well they already pay 71% of all taxes. 47% of Americans pay no taxes and they certainly would start to have to. We just can't do this any other way than increasing taxes on the Upper, Middle, and Lower classes. It is a legacy of Big Government and a fate of a Grave buried 6 feet deep in I.O.U.s. 

There is your Obama.

Strangely, a welfare state and government-subsidized healthcare are not an invention of a left-wing government. Marx and Engels didn't mention it once in any of their writings, and it never came up at meetings of the First or Second Internationals, and nations that had (or still have, in four cases) actual bona fide Communist governments NEVER had such policies and ideals, and it was never a socialist/social democratic/labour party platform until the 1960's, at the earliest. Surprisingly to many mired in modern political stereotypes, the first national leader to actually implement a social welfare state and limited subsidized healthcare was the archpaleoconservatve, staunch-anti-socialist, imperialist-militarist German Chancellor Otto von Bismarck. Also interestingly enough, about taxes, both the American and French Revolutions ultimately had taxation at core root of their causes, but, by the political axiom as defined in the late 18th Century, the Monarchists in both the American Colonies and France were "right-wing" and the Republican Revolutionaries in both were "left-wing."

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On 14/01/2018 at 10:46 PM, NYrepublican said:

What did trump quite do?

Suppression of diversity and discrimination against transgenders comes readily to mind.

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On 1/13/2018 at 5:48 PM, Patine said:

It's not hatred. And it's not a doomsday forecast I relish or desire or take glee in, and in fact I hope GREATLY I'm wrong. I'm just basing my prognostication, however grim, even apocalyptic as we know civilization, on my knowledge of history, politics, sociology, economics and other social sciences. I'm not a cackling, mad, nihilistic, doomsaying prophet, and, all-in-all, I don't like the conclusions I've reached. But, I feel it would be unfair and disingenuous to sugar-coat what I believe and humour self-deception. I want you to understand where I'm coming, as you have my motives and intents all wrong, obviously.

Didnt your prime minister called pro life groups enemy of the state? And appointed people to his cabinet based on there genders?

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