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ThePotatoWalrus

Market For Political Simulations

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Besides election simulations, there aren't many political games (and there aren't even that many election simulations tbh). Instead, I was talking about a full-on Head of State Simulator (similar to Geopolitical Simulator, but that game is a buggy, unrealistic mess)

Why do you guys think that is? Some say that there is a small market for that, but I don't believe that to be necessarily true. Games like Democracy 3 did well (though it's more of a management adjust-slider simulator than an actual Political Simulator)

If someone were to make a Political Simulator/Be-President game, who would you want to make it, and what features would you want it to have?

Personally, I'd hope for 270soft or Paradox to make one, as they've been reliable developers for good strategy/sim/political games. What do you guys think?

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I'd say the reason that there isn't a lot of Head of State games (and the ones that are there are buggy) is because it takes a high level of skill to program all the operations of your average statesman and then programming all the computers, graphics, random events and like.

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5 minutes ago, WVProgressive said:

I'd say the reason that there isn't a lot of Head of State games (and the ones that are there are buggy) is because it takes a high level of skill to program all the operations of your average statesman and then programming all the computers, graphics, random events and like.

You would think, however, Paradox made a game called Crusader Kings, which is a political simulation (medieval though), which does this exact thing, simulating war, and thousands of kings, queens, jarls, etc.

I see where you're coming from though, Paradox isn't exactly a small game developer, which gives them an advantage there.

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Paradox tends to make games of a bigger theme than just government management. The closest they come, in my opinion, is with Victoria II where you have dynamic political populations, including economic developments and class-based ideologies, elections, and forces you to interact with your elected or appointed parliamentary body to change social and economic policies.

Even so, both CK and Vicky have the problem that they span a huge amount of time while the average political term is 4 or so years. The number of unique events in any given four year span in Crusader Kings is minimal and in Victoria only exists where specifically programmed - it's not as random as a true political power simulator ought to be.

My wife plays Democracy 3, which I've been somewhat impressed by, although it's not quite my cup of tea. I have found it has a rather steep learning curve without any real guide. A more extensive game would probably have an even sharper curve.

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Yeah, it isn't a good fit for Paradox, unless you want the game to be war-centric. I'd also like 270Soft to work on something like this, but I doubt it happens. I can't think of anyone else suited to do it, since the games that are government management games are highly flawed and too war-centric, often. 

I also think such a game requires a lot of micromanagement to be realistic, and many people don't like micro-managing in game (not me, I love it). Perhaps, if you could select cabinet people and authorize them (delegate to them) to take charge in a function that you aren't interested in, like trade, for instance. The ability of that cabinet member will determine the competency of their handling of their job. 

If I had the computer programming and development skill, I would certainly make a government management game. I could probably write out every non-computer science-related aspect for the game, but someone else would have to do all the construction, unless they built some sort of 270Soft-like editor thing for me to input information. 

I don't expect to see a government management game worthy of the name anytime soon. Those that have tried, have huge flaws. 

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10 hours ago, Lyly said:

Paradox tends to make games of a bigger theme than just government management. The closest they come, in my opinion, is with Victoria II where you have dynamic political populations, including economic developments and class-based ideologies, elections, and forces you to interact with your elected or appointed parliamentary body to change social and economic policies.

Even so, both CK and Vicky have the problem that they span a huge amount of time while the average political term is 4 or so years. The number of unique events in any given four year span in Crusader Kings is minimal and in Victoria only exists where specifically programmed - it's not as random as a true political power simulator ought to be.

My wife plays Democracy 3, which I've been somewhat impressed by, although it's not quite my cup of tea. I have found it has a rather steep learning curve without any real guide. A more extensive game would probably have an even sharper curve.

Democracy 3, and the previous versions are both steep and simplistic. Once you figure out what makes people happy, you can just exploit that. In an older version, all you had to do was focus on infrastructure. I would put all the money into that, and the economy soared. I won reelection with 88% of the vote! 

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The only way I can see a political style game working is if you combined CK2, Vicky 2, and President Infinity.

You are able to start off as a lowly nobody at the bottom of the political hierarchy and have to run for some office- mayoral, the House, or the Senate(and have the starting date be 20-40 years prior to the present). There, if you gain enough prestige, you can run for the presidency. However, this will be a tall order of a game to make.  I love Vicky 2, but the main complaint against the game is how broken their economic modifier is, and this game will need one that isnt biased at all(or from a distance it isn't.) Will the tax bill that reduce corporate taxes help or hurt the economy? Or what about increased spending on firsttime home loan subsidies? All of these questions, and more will have to be factored  into the making of the game: such as foreign policy, social issues, intraparty party fighting, court nominees, and so on. 

I would love to see this type of game be made eventually, but I'm not sure if it'll be soon as the market for these type of games is rather small. 

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7 minutes ago, Sunnymentoaddict said:

The only way I can see a political style game working is if you combined CK2, Vicky 2, and President Infinity.

You are able to start off as a lowly nobody at the bottom of the political hierarchy and have to run for some office- mayoral, the House, or the Senate(and have the starting date be 20-40 years prior to the present). There, if you gain enough prestige, you can run for the presidency. However, this will be a tall order of a game to make.  I love Vicky 2, but the main complaint against the game is how broken their economic modifier is, and this game will need one that isnt biased at all(or from a distance it isn't.) Will the tax bill that reduce corporate taxes help or hurt the economy? Or what about increased spending on firsttime home loan subsidies? All of these questions, and more will have to be factored  into the making of the game: such as foreign policy, social issues, intraparty party fighting, court nominees, and so on. 

I would love to see this type of game be made eventually, but I'm not sure if it'll be soon as the market for these type of games is rather small. 

I think you should be able to start at about any level, but you can score more points if you start very low. You try to rise fast before you hit the age of 80 and retire. You may never make it out of state politics, or you could become president. 

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Regardless, I'm sure we can all agree that using PI's election sim for the election parts would be most preferable.

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10 hours ago, vcczar said:

Yeah, it isn't a good fit for Paradox, unless you want the game to be war-centric. I'd also like 270Soft to work on something like this, but I doubt it happens. I can't think of anyone else suited to do it, since the games that are government management games are highly flawed and too war-centric, often. 

I also think such a game requires a lot of micromanagement to be realistic, and many people don't like micro-managing in game (not me, I love it). Perhaps, if you could select cabinet people and authorize them (delegate to them) to take charge in a function that you aren't interested in, like trade, for instance. The ability of that cabinet member will determine the competency of their handling of their job. 

If I had the computer programming and development skill, I would certainly make a government management game. I could probably write out every non-computer science-related aspect for the game, but someone else would have to do all the construction, unless they built some sort of 270Soft-like editor thing for me to input information. 

I don't expect to see a government management game worthy of the name anytime soon. Those that have tried, have huge flaws. 

I definitely agree with micromanaging, I play NBA 2K and I can spend hours just editing character attributes in rosters and making my own draft classes.

Most games that try to appeal to political gamers are very war-centric, which is sad.

I've heard people say that Political Simulations are a niche genre within a niche genre.

I've dabbled in game design before (not programming, just graphics and design)

Nothing big like that though, just platformers as a hobby in my spare time lmao.

Sadly, I don't expect one either. Democracy 3 is probably as close as we'll get for a while until I win the lottery.

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I might make a simple version of something liek this sometime soon.

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29 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

I might make a simple version of something liek this sometime soon.

PM me and I can help you. I can show you some design I've done here.

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@NYrepublican, here's an example of a menu I did. If it looks a little wonky it's because I took the screenshot at a slightly different resolution so it won't look pixel-perfect.

I'm not that great at menus but I don't think it looks bad for a prototype menu design.

I also made some pixel art for some characters that I'll upload soon.

potatomenudesign.png

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Here are five characters I made. All of these were made back in late 2015 during the Primaries, over two years ago (except Trump's, which I did after his inauguration)

They're pretty obviously based off of pictures of them, and I think I remember going to put them in a PI scenario, but their aspect ratios were off and I didn't want to redesign them.

Apologies for Pixel Biden. If you think these are bad, you should have seen Pixel Ted (not posting that nightmare fuel) I also made Putin and Kim Jong Un for fun, but they're pretty bad as well.

These took me like 8 minutes to make each if I remember correctly.

pixeltrump.png.054e55e57b6e42645d7f5198bae0ed19.pngpixelbernie.png.c094c2d40d9017ea14dd235c92d5055f.pngpixelhillary.png.f228a86ee1f824ed64d9b62bb7222d96.pngpixelbiden.png.1d4207157f800687a89c758177952123.pngpixelgary.png.9179461c7b17770f16a356f165f0f529.png

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Oh shit, they look so cute! I love it. Really good work, and I mean that. Pixelart is a skill.

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7 minutes ago, Lyly said:

Oh shit, they look so cute! I love it. Really good work, and I mean that. Pixelart is a skill.

Lmao. Thanks man. I made those when I was 14, so they're definitely not a representation of my current skill, but I like them.

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3 hours ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Lmao. Thanks man. I made those when I was 14, so they're definitely not a representation of my current skill, but I like them.

Its got a 16 bit vibe to it! I could imagine this being a PI port to the SNES or a game for Microsoft DOS.

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4 hours ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

I definitely agree with micromanaging, I play NBA 2K and I can spend hours just editing character attributes in rosters and making my own draft classes.

Most games that try to appeal to political gamers are very war-centric, which is sad.

I've heard people say that Political Simulations are a niche genre within a niche genre.

I've dabbled in game design before (not programming, just graphics and design)

Nothing big like that though, just platformers as a hobby in my spare time lmao.

Sadly, I don't expect one either. Democracy 3 is probably as close as we'll get for a while until I win the lottery.

If you're a baseball fan, I highly recommend "Out of the Park" series. If you are familiar with Football Manager on steam, think of it as the baseball cousin but less intrusive.

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On 1/8/2018 at 11:46 PM, ThePotatoWalrus said:

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Besides election simulations, there aren't many political games (and there aren't even that many election simulations tbh). Instead, I was talking about a full-on Head of State Simulator (similar to Geopolitical Simulator, but that game is a buggy, unrealistic mess)

Why do you guys think that is? Some say that there is a small market for that, but I don't believe that to be necessarily true. Games like Democracy 3 did well (though it's more of a management adjust-slider simulator than an actual Political Simulator)

If someone were to make a Political Simulator/Be-President game, who would you want to make it, and what features would you want it to have?

Personally, I'd hope for 270soft or Paradox to make one, as they've been reliable developers for good strategy/sim/political games. What do you guys think?

why is it ¨unrealistic mess¨???

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7 hours ago, Presidentinsertname said:

why is it ¨unrealistic mess¨???

> be Trump, Hillary, or someone else
> be POTUS
> do something unpopular
> approval drops to 8%
> get kicked out of office

> be Trump, Hillary, or someone else
> be POTUS
> do something popular
> approval drops to 9%
> get kicked out of office

> be a different country
> unrealistic government and policies

> be me
> start game
> game crashes

> be GPS4 
> cost $50 
> use the same engine you've been using since 2004
> also only allow people to edit shit with a DLC that costs $16

> be Head of State
> talk to someone
> horrible TTS voice

> import/export goods
> inflation skyrockets to record-breaking levels
> economy crashes
> game crashes

I could go on. Though, if it was bug-free and had a modern interface I could see myself enjoying it.

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Oh yeah, forgot to mention that riots occur every other day that can only be dispelled with the military, or by complying fully with their demands, which will both tank your popularity massively, causing you to be removed from office. Lmao.

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19 hours ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that riots occur every other day that can only be dispelled with the military, or by complying fully with their demands, which will both tank your popularity massively, causing you to be removed from office. Lmao.

Democracy 3 released a game- that many treated as a DLC- where you lead an African nation. Democracy 3: Africa. I can see a DLC where you lead in Central America or Africa, and have to keep both the populace and the military. The only western nation to have a coup recent would be Turkey, so the coup mechanic would need a very fine set of parameters for it to be enacted. 

In the US, impeachment can take place of a coup, when your popularity falls below a certain threshold- and your actions violate the constitution(which we need to figure out how can one be given the option to violate it). But in Commonwealth nation, the Queen-god save her- can dissolve Parliament and order a new election.  

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14 hours ago, Sunnymentoaddict said:

Democracy 3 released a game- that many treated as a DLC- where you lead an African nation. Democracy 3: Africa. I can see a DLC where you lead in Central America or Africa, and have to keep both the populace and the military. The only western nation to have a coup recent would be Turkey, so the coup mechanic would need a very fine set of parameters for it to be enacted. 

In the US, impeachment can take place of a coup, when your popularity falls below a certain threshold- and your actions violate the constitution(which we need to figure out how can one be given the option to violate it). But in Commonwealth nation, the Queen-god save her- can dissolve Parliament and order a new election.  

We had coup here before like the Assassination of jfk lbj was behind the whole thing remember Jack ruby said this won`t have happen if adis Stevenson was vice president.

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On 1/10/2018 at 8:39 PM, ThePotatoWalrus said:

> be Trump, Hillary, or someone else
> be POTUS
> do something unpopular
> approval drops to 8%
> get kicked out of office

> be Trump, Hillary, or someone else
> be POTUS
> do something popular
> approval drops to 9%
> get kicked out of office

> be a different country
> unrealistic government and policies

> be me
> start game
> game crashes

> be GPS4 
> cost $50 
> use the same engine you've been using since 2004
> also only allow people to edit shit with a DLC that costs $16

> be Head of State
> talk to someone
> horrible TTS voice

> import/export goods
> inflation skyrockets to record-breaking levels
> economy crashes
> game crashes

I could go on. Though, if it was bug-free and had a modern interface I could see myself enjoying it.

It good for me maybe you are just bad at the game.

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