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US 1788 Election  

10 members have voted

  1. 1. Will you be able to help with any of the following?

    • Play through the episode and offer general feedback.
    • Play through the episode as John Adams and as a weaker candidate to test the power/cost of ads to make sure it isn't too hard or too easy to win
    • Double-check the voting population of the states in the editor to make sure they are accurate.
    • Sorry, I can't help with this scenario


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14 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Update: I'm now adding a lot more endorsers. Part of the fun will be playing as a potential VP and trying to win over these endorsers before Washington wins them. 

Will the whole outgoing Congress of the Confederation be endorsers - including the mysterious Dyre Kearney of Delaware?

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

Will the whole outgoing Congress of the Confederation be endorsers - including the mysterious Dyre Kearney of Delaware?

No, because that Congress was basically inactive. The endorsers are primarily incumbent governors and other notables, mostly signers of the declaration, constitution, but also some other people. I have an excel spreadsheet, I'm been adding endorsers to for all elections. It could feasible reach 1,000 people (excluding incumbent Govs and Sens), and I currently have about 400 people in the excel spreadsheet. 

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1 minute ago, vcczar said:

No, because that Congress was basically inactive. The endorsers are primarily incumbent governors and other notables, mostly signers of the declaration, constitution, but also some other people. I have an excel spreadsheet, I'm been adding endorsers to for all elections. It could feasible reach 1,000 people (excluding incumbent Govs and Sens), and I currently have about 400 people in the excel spreadsheet. 

An interesting question. If the outdoing Congress of the Confederation was basically inactive at the time of the 1788 election, but the election was to elect the  first government under the Constitution, who would have had governmental powers and decision-making if, hypothetical, the U.S. had been invaded, or rebellion broke out across multiple States (but not by the State governments), or some other nation-wide crisis had happened while the election was being conducted?

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7 minutes ago, Patine said:

An interesting question. If the outdoing Congress of the Confederation was basically inactive at the time of the 1788 election, but the election was to elect the  first government under the Constitution, who would have had governmental powers and decision-making if, hypothetical, the U.S. had been invaded, or rebellion broke out across multiple States (but not by the State governments), or some other nation-wide crisis had happened while the election was being conducted?

The Congress would have rushed to Philadelphia to pass emergency measures. This was the problem though, the Confederation created a government that was arguably too weak to defend itself. The idea was that all the governors would know what to do, and would send militia. 

To give you an idea of endorsers for 1788. I've expanded them from the general (Governor, plus two notables) to more people. For instance, Massachusetts has:

John Hancock

Samuel Adams

Caleb Strong

Elbridge Gerry

Nathanial Gorham

Rufus King

Robert Treat Paine

Henry Knox

Boston Brahmins (standing in for the influential Bostonian upper class)

John Adams is a US endorser, and not just specific to MA. 

John 

 

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Update: Fixed a mistake that had all my new additions: Thomas Paine, Roger Sherman, etc. on the presidential ballot (Washington and what-if Franklin's ballot), instead of on the VP ballot. 

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Update: I've altered the cost of ads, and changed the single ad type for 1788 from "newspaper" to "broadside ad."

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3 hours ago, vcczar said:

Update: Fixed a mistake that had all my new additions: Thomas Paine, Roger Sherman, etc. on the presidential ballot (Washington and what-if Franklin's ballot), instead of on the VP ballot. 

Hadn't Thomas Paine already gone to France by then (I know he was there and in the thick of it when the Revolution broke out in Paris the following year, though I can't remember quite when he arrived)?

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16 minutes ago, Patine said:

Hadn't Thomas Paine already gone to France by then (I know he was there and in the thick of it when the Revolution broke out in Paris the following year, though I can't remember quite when he arrived)?

Yes, he moved from Philadelphia to London in 1787, and thence to Paris, before returning to America (but to NYC). Thomas Paine is a what-if he hadn't have moved. He will not be an endorser, though. 

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Update: All endorsers except for Virginia endorsers have been added (except those already in existence). I will not add newspaper endorsers until 1796, when those started to play a part in elections. 

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40 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Update: All endorsers except for Virginia endorsers have been added (except those already in existence). I will not add newspaper endorsers until 1796, when those started to play a part in elections. 

With the National Gazette and the Gazette of the United States as big ones, I assume?

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2 minutes ago, Patine said:

With the National Gazette and the Gazette of the United States as big ones, I assume?

The first one didn't exist until 1791. 

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Update: All the endorsers are now finished. 

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Update: I've double-checked the populations, set the relations, and I'm now adding descriptions for far-left and far-right viewpoints, which had been "n/a." 

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Update: I'm adding prominent local papers, but there will be no national paper, since newspapers didn't have the same national reach. 

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@jvikings1

When I get to about 1816, I'll send you some feedback that you could implement into your 1824 scenario. Or, if you wish, I could type up the proposed additions (endorsers, etc.), and then edit the file for you, if you like the proposed additions, when I finish 1820, since I might be able to do it a lot quicker, since I am sort of programmed to do this. 

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Update: two new endorsers "French Interests" and "British Interests" are added to account for those governments influencing the early elections. 

French interests will run through 1800, when John Adams diplomacy basically ends their influence in US politics. Napoleon is then too preoccupied to focus on the US, but probably would have had he won Waterloo. 

British interests will run through 1812, but will be ended with the War of 1815. It will reemerge for 1860 and 1864. 

I might add "Russian Interests" for 2016 and 2020, if enough people on the forum think it is relevant and accurate. 

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@WVProgressive @SeanFKennedy @jnewt @michaelsdiamonds @Kingthero @Lyly

@Patine 

I'm attaching all my changes. Could you test this out? I need someone to play as John Adams to see if it is too easy or difficult to hold a lead over the other VP candidates. I need someone to play as George Clinton to see if it is too easy to win VP, or too difficult to win even some EVs. (It should be difficult for him to win, but winning a state shouldn't be impossible). Also, if anyone wants to play as Benjamin Franklin, I want it to be difficult to beat Washington on the president ballot, but not necessarily impossible to win Pennsylvania. In short, the scenario shouldn't be too easy to win or impossible to have minor successes. 

Unless further suggestions or errors are found, then this is pretty much the "final" update for 1788. 

Note: I have updated the money to 2017 numbers, since attempts at historical money, ad costs, and ad power was making the game too imbalanced. 

 

United States - 1788-DecUpdating.zip

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I'll give it a shot later this afternoon.

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2 hours ago, vcczar said:

@jvikings1

When I get to about 1816, I'll send you some feedback that you could implement into your 1824 scenario. Or, if you wish, I could type up the proposed additions (endorsers, etc.), and then edit the file for you, if you like the proposed additions, when I finish 1820, since I might be able to do it a lot quicker, since I am sort of programmed to do this. 

I'd love to have any feedback on the scenario.  I should have plenty of time to insert them into the scenario after this week because I'll be on Christmas Break from almost a month.  So, I can handle that for now (which would give you time to continue improving the ones afterward).

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I'm playing as Adams with everyone on seeking the Vice Presidency. I think I'm on track easily enough, but it's too soon to tell if it is too easy.

Interesting color scheme for the candidates; the pink is helpful to prevent campaigning in the wrong race, but it doesn't look great on the map! I've found that keeping the popular vote tally open is the most helpful. Just try to keep your candidate's numbers close to Washington and you know you're in the lead. :P

The biggest difficulty in playing through the scenario for me is the map. The percentages shown is for the Presidential race, while the real fun seems to be in the race for the Veepship. Plus the candidates' flags all cover up entire states so it is difficult to see through that too.

If there was enough interest in it, we could put together a bigger map to eliminate both of those problems - having the map use more of the space available could help alleviate the flag spam and since there are two elections in each state, it would be feasible to show both the presidential and vice presidential races at the same time.

The ads still seem to be extremely cheap even while funds have been set to modern amounts. I have $100 million in the bank and am running ads nationwide for $200. Maybe it is a function of the low population?

 

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iXoIPZ6.png

What would you think about using a map that looked something like this for the first couple elections?
It makes more use of the available space, spreading out the flags I found so annoying, and the extra square for each state could be used for the vice presidential race or vice versa.

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3 hours ago, Lyly said:

I'm playing as Adams with everyone on seeking the Vice Presidency. I think I'm on track easily enough, but it's too soon to tell if it is too easy.

Interesting color scheme for the candidates; the pink is helpful to prevent campaigning in the wrong race, but it doesn't look great on the map! I've found that keeping the popular vote tally open is the most helpful. Just try to keep your candidate's numbers close to Washington and you know you're in the lead. :P

The biggest difficulty in playing through the scenario for me is the map. The percentages shown is for the Presidential race, while the real fun seems to be in the race for the Veepship. Plus the candidates' flags all cover up entire states so it is difficult to see through that too.

If there was enough interest in it, we could put together a bigger map to eliminate both of those problems - having the map use more of the space available could help alleviate the flag spam and since there are two elections in each state, it would be feasible to show both the presidential and vice presidential races at the same time.

The ads still seem to be extremely cheap even while funds have been set to modern amounts. I have $100 million in the bank and am running ads nationwide for $200. Maybe it is a function of the low population?

 

This feedback is invaluable. Thanks!

In regards to the map, can you use the file I posted on here, and input the map in for me, as I'm not sure how to get it working. Additionally, if you can do this, can you also alter the ads for me? Make them 10 days to create, and add  an extra zero to the cost of the ads. This will be found in the scenario's ad.xsl. I think they are off because of the low population, as you assume. 

Let me know if you can do these or not, if you can, then I can move on to 1792, as we begin wrapping up 1788. 

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4 hours ago, jvikings1 said:

I'd love to have any feedback on the scenario.  I should have plenty of time to insert them into the scenario after this week because I'll be on Christmas Break from almost a month.  So, I can handle that for now (which would give you time to continue improving the ones afterward).

My guess it will be a few weeks before I get it to you, but I can give you partial additions any time you wish, since I've created a large database of endorsers for all scenarios. 

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