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vcczar

Abolitionism Poll

Abolitionism Poll  

15 members have voted

  1. 1. Pretend you are an American in 1865, living in the state of your choice. You have just read Wendell Phillip's suggestions to Lincoln for Reconstruction. Do you agree with Phillips?

    • I agree. Confiscate the land of the plantation owners (the ruling minority) and place them in the hands of freed slaves in the South and of whites who help fight for our country.
    • I agree. Give freed slaves free land in the South, so that they have means of production, so that they can become valuable to society and not have their rights respected.
    • I agree. Give freed slaves and freemen, US citizenship, so that they can be equals under the law.
    • I agree. Give freed slaves and freeman free education, so that they can become valuable to society and not have their rights respected.
    • I agree. Give freed slaves and freemen that are male the right to vote, so that politicians will have to also honor their requests.
    • I do not agree. I think Pres. Lincoln is wise to let the Plantation Class return to their estates, even if it does not rid the South of their oligarchical political order.
    • I do not agree. We should not give free land as a spoils of war to anyone; Former slaves will have to work their way to land ownership.
    • I do not agree. US Citizenship will lead to the premise that there is equality among the races.
    • I do not agree. Education should not be free, nor should it be provided by or forced onto a group by the government.
    • I do not agree. We cannot give the right to vote to a class of people that don't understand how government, society, economics, etc., works.
    • I do not agree for another reason (comment below)
  2. 2. If you had lived in 1860 in the state of your choice you'd picture yourself as most closely resembling a....

    • William Lloyd Garrison radical abolitionist -- Free the slaves immediately, by revolt/violence if necessary, but stop once that is achieved.
    • Wendell Phillips radical abolitionist -- Free the slaves immediately, by revolt/violence if necessary. Once achieved, carry on to securing equality, voting rights, etc.
    • James G. Birney abolitionist -- Call for legislation to free the slaves immediately, but not encourage revolts or violence. Oppose securing equality and voting rights for them.
    • Abraham Lincoln moderate abolitionist -- Contain slavery where it exists (ban it in the territories), and wait for it to naturally die out, even if it takes several generations.
    • Stephen A. Douglas/Lewis Cass Popular Sovereignty proponents -- Keep slavery where it currently exists, allow the populations of territories to ban or allow slavery on their own.
    • Alexander Stephens moderate slavery-proponent -- Keep slavery where it currently exists, forbid banning of slavery in the territories, oppose secession.
      0
    • Louis T. Wigfall Radical slavery-proponent -- Defend slavery, and expand slavery into territories, and in conquered lands in the Western Hemisphere. Secede from the North.
  3. 3. If you had lived in 1863 in the state of your choice, you would be...

    • Personally fighting for the North on the battlefields
    • Personally fighting for the South on the battlefields
    • Working as a civilian in the North (elaborate below as to what)
    • Working as a civilian in the South (elaborate below as to what)
      0
    • Representing the people as a Radical Republican politician (interested more in abolishing slavery than preserving the Union)
    • Representing the people as a moderate Republican politicians (interested more in preserving the Union than abolishing slavery)
    • Representing the people as a Northern War Democrat (supports Lincoln's war) politician
      0
    • Representing the people as a Northern Peace Democrat (opposes Lincoln's war) politician
    • Representing the people as a Mainstream Southern Democrat (supporting strong Federal power to win the Civil War) politician.
      0
    • Representing the people as a Purist Southern Democrat (Supporting States Rights at all costs against a Federal government, even if it makes fighting the war impossible) politician


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I picture myself living where many of my ancestors lived---in Massachusetts. I picture myself as a Harvard professor, who is conflicted on the war, as I am both a strong abolitionist and a pacifist. While I do not see the majority of Southern people as evil or un-American, I see the members of the Plantation Class--the minority that rules the South--as traitors, immoral, bordering on Satanic, who have basically revoked their citizenship by waging war on our country and, furthermore, have lost all claims to their property as open traitors. I expect the property to be divided among former slaves, freedmen, Northern migrants, or Southerners who did not participate in the Civil War. My 1860s version of myself hangs around in circles that include Charles Sumner, Wendell Phillips, Ralph Waldo Emerson, etc. 

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2 hours ago, lizarraba said:

I see me fighting for the South, but because i admire General Lee.

So, one general is admired, and all ethical concerns go to the wind? I admire Rommel as a general if that puts what I'm saying in perspective...

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19 hours ago, Patine said:

So, one general is admired, and all ethical concerns go to the wind? I admire Rommel as a general if that puts what I'm saying in perspective...

I was about to point out that same thing

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I've never understood the cult of personality or even charisma ("...because I admire Robert E. Lee"). I know charisma exists, because I see people get religiously inspired by politicians, musicians, friends, sportsplayers, etc. I don't know if I've ever been affected by charisma, but I'm also one of those people that never really gets visibly excited about anything. 

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4 hours ago, vcczar said:

I've never understood the cult of personality or even charisma ("...because I admire Robert E. Lee"). I know charisma exists, because I see people get religiously inspired by politicians, musicians, friends, sportsplayers, etc. I don't know if I've ever been affected by charisma, but I'm also one of those people that never really gets visibly excited about anything. 

 

On 10/13/2017 at 5:14 PM, Patine said:

So, one general is admired, and all ethical concerns go to the wind? I admire Rommel as a general if that puts what I'm saying in perspective...

What happened to, "Pretend you are an American in 1865"? I guarantee you he doesn't believe in slavery (and neither do I). He was just voting in accordance with another one of these biased trap-polls. He never said he was influenced by anything or supported slavery. He was literally following the directions. #FakeNews

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Just now, ThePotatoWalrus said:

 

What happened to, "Pretend you are an American in 1865"? I guarantee you he doesn't believe in slavery (and neither do I). He was just voting in accordance with another one of these biased trap-polls. He never said he was influenced by anything or supported slavery. He was literally following the directions. #FakeNews

They didn't have "fake news" or hashtags in 1865 either! In fact, I miss the days (which extended into my own earlier life) when all this obnoxious and odious swamping of nonsensical and downright stupid pop-culture garbage references were everywhere for everything. The word has become a crappier place for their ubiquity.

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Just now, Patine said:

They didn't have "fake news" or hashtags in 1865 either! In fact, I miss the days (which extended into my own earlier life) when all this obnoxious and odious swamping of nonsensical and downright stupid pop-culture garbage references were everywhere for everything. The word has become a crappier place for their ubiquity.

I miss when people didn't create baity polls with trap options that lead to you being attacked by said peop-- oh wait. 🐸 

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Just now, ThePotatoWalrus said:

I miss when people didn't create baity polls with trap options that lead to you being attacked by said peop-- oh wait. 🐸 

I didn't create the poll. @vcczar and I may agree on many things, but we aren't the same poster. Open your eyes!

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And I don't think Rommel or cults of personality existed back in 1865 either... But #FakeNews certainly did #TheReasonTheCivilWarWasFought

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Just now, Patine said:

I didn't create the poll. @vcczar and I may agree on many things, but we aren't the same poster. Open your eyes!

By said people I mustve meant people waiting on others to click on the bait 

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1 minute ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

And I don't think Rommel or cults of personality existed back in 1865 either... But #FakeNews certainly did #TheReasonTheCivilWarWasFought

In 1860, the Southern Democratic political leaders made no illusions or pretenses that slavery was indeed the central and by far most important being fought over. The Confederate apologists and historical revisionists didn't start showing to claim there was more to the war and why it was fought and attempting to broaden it's "justification" until after the war.

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1 minute ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

By said people I mustve meant people waiting on others to click on the bait 

You have a funny way of putting it....

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7 minutes ago, Patine said:

You have a funny way of putting it....

Burned. Deleting my account.

 

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2 minutes ago, Patine said:

In 1860, the Southern Democratic political leaders made no illusions or pretenses that slavery was indeed the central and by far most important being fought over. The Confederate apologists and historical revisionists didn't start showing to claim there was more to the war and why it was fought and attempting to broaden it's "justification" until after the war.

I was basically referring to the North who only joined the Civil War to "pREsErVe tHE uNIoN" but I also don't think the Civil War was fought over slavery either.

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16 minutes ago, Patine said:

In 1860, the Southern Democratic political leaders made no illusions or pretenses that slavery was indeed the central and by far most important being fought over. The Confederate apologists and historical revisionists didn't start showing to claim there was more to the war and why it was fought and attempting to broaden it's "justification" until after the war.

I think a significant part of it was that the Federal Govt. was seen as a bully in the south then and that allowed for the creation of a "us vs them" dynamic that later spiraled into the Civil War.

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3 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

I think a significant part of it was that the Federal Govt. was seen as a bully in the south then and that allowed for the creation of a "us vs them" dynamic that later spiraled into the Civil War.

I concur with this analysis 100%

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4 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

I think a significant part of it was that the Federal Govt. was seen as a bully in the south then and that allowed for the creation of a "us vs them" dynamic that later spiraled into the Civil War.

"Slave power" in Federal politics until the mid- to late-1850's shows a distinct lack of a "bullied victim" status in the Southern States.

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

"Slave power" in Federal politics until the mid- to late-1850's shows a distinct lack of a "bullied victim" status in the Southern States.

It was likely spun that way.

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1 minute ago, NYrepublican said:

It was likely spun that way.

The Antebellum Southern culture and people seemed too proud to play "bullied victim." They had the same kind of "proud culture" the British did at that same time, really.

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39 minutes ago, Patine said:

The Antebellum Southern culture and people seemed too proud to play "bullied victim." They had the same kind of "proud culture" the British did at that same time, really.

It worked like this: "The Feds and abolitionists seek to take away our culture, the pride of our people(i.e slavery) etc."

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I would support the freeing of slaves by compensating the Slave owners with some money for each slave. Then i would intern all the freed slaves and ship them to Liberia.

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