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vcczar

2020 Candidate abilities poll

2020 Candidate abilities poll (please post comments below)  

16 members have voted

  1. 1. Which of the following abilities does NOT seem accurate to you (please comment below)

    • Joe Biden - 4 integrity
    • Bernie Sanders - 5 integrity
    • Bernie Sanders - 3 charisma
    • Bernie Sanders - 3 leadership
    • Elizabeth Warren - 3 charisma
    • Cory Booker - 4 integrity
    • Hillary Clinton - 2 charisma
    • Al Franken - 3 integrity
    • Donald Trump - 3 leadership
    • Donald Trump - 1 integrity
    • Donald Trump - 4 charisma
    • Donald Trump - 2 debate
    • John Kasich - 4 leadership
    • Rand Paul - 2 charisma
    • Ted Cruz - 3 integrity
    • Ted Cruz - 2 charisma
    • Susan Collins - 3 charisma
    • Mike Pence - 3 charisma
    • Mike Pence - 3 integrity
    • All of these seem about accurate to me


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This might be a better way to address the 2020 candidates. I'm most concerned in regards to these numbers. 

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Here are the ones I find inaccurate and what I think their ability should be:

Elizabeth Warren 2 charisma

Cory Booker 3 integrity

Hillary Clinton 1 charisma

Donald Trump 4 debate (I don't think he's actually a good debater, but I think he won over many voters in the debates)

Rand Paul 3 charisma

 

 

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21 minutes ago, jnewt said:

Here are the ones I find inaccurate and what I think their ability should be:

Elizabeth Warren 2 charisma

Cory Booker 3 integrity

Hillary Clinton 1 charisma

Donald Trump 4 debate (I don't think he's actually a good debater, but I think he won over many voters in the debates)

Rand Paul 3 charisma

 

 

I can agree with all of those except for Clinton and Trump. I think if she had a 1 in charisma she wouldn't still have a tight nit group of supporters within the Democratic party. Believe it or not, she still has fans. I wouldn't give Trump a debate of 4 because I don't think he won a single debate. I think his 5 in Spin sort of takes the place of that, as he spins his weaknesses into positives. The others seem like good suggestions. 

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This is going to sound off coming from someone who despises the Trump presidency, but he deserves a 5 in debate. 

While he may have had a 2 or 1 in a conventional debate, the way he made every debate about himself, made himself the central speaker, got away with inaccuracies and lies, and generally took down all who opposed him in the debates makes him by far the strongest debate opponent of the 21st century. 

My point is that while he's an unconventional debater, he's more or less mastered it, just in a different way than, say, Barbara Boxer or Ronald Reagan. He should have a 5 or at the very least a 4 in debate. 

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22 minutes ago, CalebsParadox said:

This is going to sound off coming from someone who despises the Trump presidency, but he deserves a 5 in debate. 

While he may have had a 2 or 1 in a conventional debate, the way he made every debate about himself, made himself the central speaker, got away with inaccuracies and lies, and generally took down all who opposed him in the debates makes him by far the strongest debate opponent of the 21st century. 

My point is that while he's an unconventional debater, he's more or less mastered it, just in a different way than, say, Barbara Boxer or Ronald Reagan. He should have a 5 or at the very least a 4 in debate. 

That point, however, is not a flattering review of American poliitcal debaters in the 21st Century as a whole, though... :S

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Bernie Sanders should have 4, not 5 integrity. Tax stuff was recent.

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1 hour ago, CalebsParadox said:

This is going to sound off coming from someone who despises the Trump presidency, but he deserves a 5 in debate. 

While he may have had a 2 or 1 in a conventional debate, the way he made every debate about himself, made himself the central speaker, got away with inaccuracies and lies, and generally took down all who opposed him in the debates makes him by far the strongest debate opponent of the 21st century. 

My point is that while he's an unconventional debater, he's more or less mastered it, just in a different way than, say, Barbara Boxer or Ronald Reagan. He should have a 5 or at the very least a 4 in debate. 

I might conceivably make him a 3 then. Partially because he's a terrible debater that can draw attention to himself, but also because, as is already apparent, a Trump malaise brewing among people that originally liked him. I had been reading about it, but now I know of two people personally that now renounce their support of Trump---one burning his red hat, and the other burning a Trump flag. In both cases this was over Trump's policies and rhetoric that they perceived as racist and bigoted. I don't understand how this rhetoric escaped them before. 

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5 minutes ago, Kingthero said:

Bernie Sanders should have 4, not 5 integrity. Tax stuff was recent.

Can you elaborate on that tax stuff so I know what you mean? I just need some clarification. Thanks. 

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7 minutes ago, Kingthero said:

I haven't heard anything about that, and I follow the news pretty closely, including using Fox News as a source for an alternative view point. I'll still consider moving Sanders to a 4 in integrity if others can give reasons for the move. 

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32 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I haven't heard anything about that, and I follow the news pretty closely, including using Fox News as a source for an alternative view point. I'll still consider moving Sanders to a 4 in integrity if others can give reasons for the move. 

I would second this moving to a 4. If a 5 is legendary, then it's going to be very, very hard to accomplish being perceived that way. Sanders is seen as trustworthy, but it's not legendary. 

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34 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I haven't heard anything about that, and I follow the news pretty closely, including using Fox News as a source for an alternative view point. I'll still consider moving Sanders to a 4 in integrity if others can give reasons for the move. 

I would second this moving to a 4. If a 5 is legendary, then it's going to be very, very hard to accomplish being perceived that way. Sanders is seen as trustworthy, but it's not legendary. 

I would also argue that Booker is a 3 in integrity (he's not all that clean and connections to wallstreet make him hard to trust). 

Warren has a serious charisma deficit. I'd think maybe a 2.

I think Paul is well regarded enough by 2020 to be a 3 in charisma, especially among younger voters. 

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6 minutes ago, CalebsParadox said:

I would second this moving to a 4. If a 5 is legendary, then it's going to be very, very hard to accomplish being perceived that way. Sanders is seen as trustworthy, but it's not legendary. 

I would also argue that Booker is a 3 in integrity (he's not all that clean and connections to wallstreet make him hard to trust). 

Warren has a serious charisma deficit. I'd think maybe a 2.

I think Paul is well regarded enough by 2020 to be a 3 in charisma, especially among younger voters. 

I always thought that Charisma didn't mean what the voters thought of you, necassarily, but how well you projected your message in a way that motivated voters and made fiery speeches and emotional rallies. The quality that both Hitler and Churchill are often called out by historians as being (objectively, not moral judgements) prime examples of apex political figures in the last century for embodying.

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Just now, SiorafasNaCillini said:

That seems more like Leadership and Stamina to me.

But the word "Charisma," itself, is the word historians use for that quality in leaders.

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I also am in favor of a 4 for integrity for Sanders. Jane is under FBI investigation and he hasn't had a whole lot of national scrutiny. So, I would probably say a 4, as he is not likely to have a ridiculous number of scandals, but anyone in politics that long isn't free of them.

I would move Booker to a 3 for integrity, as there were some scandals from his tenure as mayor of Newark and ties to Wall Street and Pharmaceutical companies. I don't think there's a whole lot of substance there, however, the optics alone can be spun into a story.

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Bernie's leadership I say should be 4.

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On 10/2/2017 at 11:41 AM, vcczar said:

@michaelsdiamonds and @lizarraba can you offer your suggested rating changes?

Susan Collins is a 1 or 2 in charisma is my biggest issue.

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6 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

Susan Collins is a 1 or 2 in charisma is my biggest issue.

A droning, robotic-sounding speaker who inspires no emotion in her audience? And that's actually a question. I haven't ever heard her speak.

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

A droning, robotic-sounding speaker who inspires no emotion in her audience? And that's actually a question. I haven't ever heard her speak.

Even if you agree, just listen: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nt5q46E4y4

 

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2 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

Even if you agree, just listen: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nt5q46E4y4

 

How is this a matter of the Charisma attribute? Candidate relations with certain other GOP candidates and appeal to certain to certain GOP-leaning endorsers could be affected, yes, as well as Trump's main supporting voter demographic base's view of her, yes. But I don't see objective Charisma being affected at all.

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

How is this a matter of the Charisma attribute? Candidate relations with certain other GOP candidates and appeal to certain to certain GOP-leaning endorsers could be affected, yes, as well as Trump's main supporting voter demographic base's view of her, yes. But I don't see objective Charisma being affected at all.

Wat. I told you to listen to her voice. Doesn't matter what she is saying.

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