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NYrepublican

Catalonia Independence Referendum

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I'm not really invested in this issue. I think if Catalan wishes to be its own country, then I think they should be allowed to be their own country, so long as the doing so does not cause some sort of human rights issue, like when the Confederacy voted to secede from the US. As I don't expect this to be the case, then I'm not opposed to their secession if the majority wish to do so. I don't know enough of Spanish politics to know if seceding is a good idea or not. I'm not Spanish or Catalan, so I don't feel comfortable asserting a definite opinion. 

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If I am right:

More than 700 000-1 million people were gathered for the independence

Today, 350 000 (to 900 000) for Spanish unity

So 2 huges crowds quite egal in term of people, nice to see that only a referendum could decide it.

I do not reduce it, but the number is yet to estimate as votes unwished by the Central Power are forbiden in the Democratic Spain

Catalonia will never end with this story peacefully without a democratic process, maybe it's time for at least for a regional election in Catalonia.

 

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27 minutes ago, Sami said:

If I am right:

More than 700 000-1 million people were gathered for the independence

Today, 350 000 (to 900 000) for Spanish unity

So 2 huges crowds quite egal in term of people, nice to see that only a referendum could decide it.

I do not reduce it, but the number is yet to estimate as votes unwished by the Central Power are forbiden in the Democratic Spain

Catalonia will never end with this story peacefully without a democratic process, maybe it's time for at least for a regional election in Catalonia.

 

You are totally correct.

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Just now, lizarraba said:

You are totally correct.

I understand how hard the situation can be for you...

From one side you see the Independentists who are forcing the others to join them

From another the independentists see a "Dangerous" derivation from the democratic state of spain...

Both sides are victim at the end, but even if Catalonia stays or leaves Spain I do not see any alternative that won't let apart one group...

I am with a Quebecer, and the Independence took a major part in the Policy of the Province still today, but the cool and open hand of the federal government kills the sovereignty on the long term with an high autonomy...for me the only mean to keep Catalonia in Spain would be also that Spain changes his PM and offers a deal to Catalonia.

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On 10/6/2017 at 2:06 AM, Patine said:

@JDrakeify @willpaddyg @daons @LegolasRedbard @Prussian1871 @wolves @SirLagsalott @michaelsdiamonds @victorraiders @Patine @Falcon @jnewt @President Garrett Walker @Reagan04 @Conservative Elector 2 @SeanFKennedy @vcczar @jvikings1 @harveyrayson2 @lizarraba @TheMiddlePolitical @CalebsParadox @MrPrez @msc123123 @NYrepublican  @RI Democrat @servo75 @Presidentinsertname  @ThePotatoWalrus @Sunnymentoaddict @TheLiberalKitten @Quebecois @avatarmushi @Sami

Talk about uncanny (or maybe suspicious) timing. Jalal Talabani, the founder and organizer of the PUK, and the first Kurdish, or non-Arab period, post-Ottoman era head-of-state of Iraq, dies of a stroke less than a week after the Kurdish Independence Referendum.

what a ironic time to died.

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10 minutes ago, Presidentinsertname said:

what a ironic time to died.

Image result for english grammar book

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Here's by province results

Official results of the referendum on October 1 in Catalonia.png

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6 minutes ago, lizarraba said:

I support a referendum.

"Where do you stand on this pivotal issue, Mr. <Insert Title of Importance>?"

"I believe a firm decision must be made. "

:P

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Well I guess supporting a referendum is a position of sorts even if not to any greater extent than in America leaving policy issue x or y up to the states.

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34 minutes ago, SiorafasNaCillini said:

Well I guess supporting a referendum is a position of sorts even if not to any greater extent than in America leaving policy issue x or y up to the states.

The latter stance on a given issue is usually (when applicable) "centre" on most TheorySpark U.S. Presidential Scenarios, so that's telling right there.

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If I am right @lizarraba is for the referendum but also for the unity.

In the last regional election there were 2 sides, the pro unity and the pro independence

Those for the independence got 47,8% but those for the unity got Something like 43% and between two there was the result of the local PODEMOS who is for the referendum and neutral on the independence.

According to the political belief of the people I talked with Podemos was either in the Unity column, either not.

 

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3 hours ago, Sami said:

If I am right @lizarraba is for the referendum but also for the unity.

In the last regional election there were 2 sides, the pro unity and the pro independence

Those for the independence got 47,8% but those for the unity got Something like 43% and between two there was the result of the local PODEMOS who is for the referendum and neutral on the independence.

According to the political belief of the people I talked with Podemos was either in the Unity column, either not.

 

Pablo Iglesias and all the leaders of Podemos are pro-unionist but want a referendum, like me.

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@lizarraba How long would it take you to do regions for a Catalan referendum scenario. I can do the rest.

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Just now, lizarraba said:

Regions you mean the map? Or the %s?

Both. I have a 4 region Catalonia map that you can add the counties to if you want.

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2 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

Both. I have a 4 region Catalonia map that you can add the counties to if you want.

Well then i will make the %s by regions soon.

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3 minutes ago, lizarraba said:

Well then i will make the %s by regions soon.

Thanks. I'll send you the map soon.

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Macron is definitively a centralist securitarist European federalist and a poor politician. And I say it as a social liberal who voted for him in the second turn against marine le pen. Spain Catalonia: France snubs independence bid
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41551337 I always been an European defender (not for a federacy however) but I am more and more sceptic with this kind of shamefull reactions... Macron is far far far away of the General de Gaulle or even Jacques Chirac in foreign policy

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2 hours ago, Sami said:

Macron is definitively a centralist securitarist European federalist and a poor politician. And I say it as a social liberal who voted for him in the second turn against marine le pen. Spain Catalonia: France snubs independence bid
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41551337 I always been an European defender (not for a federacy however) but I am more and more sceptic with this kind of shamefull reactions... Macron is far far far away of the General de Gaulle or even Jacques Chirac in foreign policy

What do you think about 2022?

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12 minutes ago, lizarraba said:

What do you think about 2022?

With a full honesty, Macron has good chances of re-election...

France is recovering with economic growth just now after years of low growth, so Macron is helped by the period and risks to have a quite good end of mandate on the economic issue.

However the Socialists are still trying to search a leader, I see them as the PASOK after 2012, a tierce party.

Mélenchon has his chances for 2022 if he plays the Tsipras' strategy of being more moderate than in 2017 but he also has his haters (he's the well qualified for fighting Macron even if I disapprove him).

The Front National and the Right are in chaos, 1) Florian Philippot the Frexit wing of the National Front just resigned so the National Front will pass from a UKIP mod to a BUP mod that won't help them to keep the coalition they had, they will loose voters to Jean Luc Mélenchon and the far left.

And as I said the Right is just exploded, the Mayor of Nice, Christian Estrosi launched a "moderate" group in the Right between EN MARCHE and the Right. Valérie Pécresse the Republican Pdt of Paris region has also launched her movement in the center of the party that will oppose the next President of the Right, Laurent Wauquiez that will for himself lead a blue-conservatuive-close of the far-right coalition.

Hence with 3 movements in the Right party and the exclusion of the Eurosceptic wing of the National Front in France I do estimate that the Right is currently disqualificating itself...

The Left is divided into pieces (Greens,Socialists,Radicals, the new movement of Hamon called the 31st July....).

With that period Macron that lead the Center and Mélenchon the Strong Left close of the far-left are probably the most potential ticket for 2022, currently of course.

And I do believe that I should get a binationality soon xD.

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5 hours ago, Sami said:

Macron is definitively a centralist securitarist European federalist and a poor politician. And I say it as a social liberal who voted for him in the second turn against marine le pen. Spain Catalonia: France snubs independence bid
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41551337 I always been an European defender (not for a federacy however) but I am more and more sceptic with this kind of shamefull reactions... Macron is far far far away of the General de Gaulle or even Jacques Chirac in foreign policy

Is Macron being a "centralist securitarist European federalist" part of why you see him being a poor politician, or on top of or beside that, out of curiosity. Also, in terms of foreign policy of great French leaders, there was also Napoleon Bonaparte, who wanted complete French hegemony over Europe and to divide into a bunch of puppet, proxy, and submissive nations, but I digress...

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