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vcczar

If the South Never Joined the US -- A Playthrough

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I decided to do a playthrough (simulation only) using only Northern candidates (no future Confederate states). I've come to believe that the majority of our nation's problems throughout history can be boiled down to Southern backwardness. As someone that is Southern born and still living in the South, I believe I can say this both from a historical aspect and from personal experience. As such, I've decided to do a playthrough as if Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia did not sign the Constitution or Articles of Confederation, and that the US became solely the remainder of the original states. I will include all the future states that never became part of the Confederacy. I will give the Southern states Oklahoma, New Mexico, Kentucky, West Virginia and Arizona, however. 

Presidents:

1. John Adams (MA), Federalist, 1789-1801 

Served 12 years, sided with Britain once France executed their King. Expanded the US to Ohio. Secured boundaries with British Canada, and received most favorable trade partner with Britain as part of the deal to enter the War against France. Despite their animosity, Adams adopts Hamilton's economic policies. Adams helps get a law through Congress that allows the government to aid in industrializing the country, especially coastal cities. While aiding Britain in the war, they develop only a token navy, helping Britain mainly by trading with them and not with France. They allow American volunteers to join British ranks, however. 

2. Aaron Burr (NY), Republican, 1801-1805

While popular among the people, he is so disliked by Congress that he is effectively useless as president. His decision to revert the country to a stage of neutrality once Napoleon takes control of France causes a backlash in Congress. He also upsets local powers by suggesting that even men that own property should be allowed to vote. He is unable to abolish slavery in the Country, despite only Maryland and Delaware being the only states where it remains legal. Burr's lasting legacy is that he prevents the moving of the capital from New York to Philadelphia. 

3. George Clinton (NY), Republican, 1805-1812

The first president to die in office. Clinton's presidency saw the selling of cheap land Westward, and the acquisition of all Northern land to the Mississippi River. While still being aligned with Britain, Clinton saw that the country did not get involved for the most part. Clinton died of illness and was succeeded by his VP Elbridge Gerry

4. Elbridge Gerry (MA) Republican, 1812-1813

Served for about a year. Gerry continued Clinton's policies. His only individual efforts were a failed attempt to expand the electorate to allow those who did not own property to vote. He was censured by the senate when attempting to convince state legislatures to redistrict land so that his suffrage platform would pass. Thus discredited, he opted not to run for reelection. 

5. DeWitt Clinton (NY) Fusion/Federalist, 1813-1817

Clinton, nephew of George Clinton, instituted infrastructure projects in every state, which eventually led to the Country reaching massive prosperity by 1820. Unfortunately, the cost of doing so made Clinton appear to be aloof to finances, and he was voted out of office before the country saw the ingenious foresight of his infrastructure program. Under Clinton, Native American tribes were given their own Sanctuary Cities within territories and states to live, so long as they followed federal and state law. This, too, took some while to show the progress. By 1830, all the tribes East of the Mississippi in the North were virtually assimilated to Western culture. The Clinton plan would be used in the future as the country expanded. Clinton left office unpopular, but is now considered one of the greatest one-term presidents. 

6. Daniel Tompkins (NY) Republican, 1817-1825

Promising to continue infrastructure projects, but on a limited budget, Tompkins was able to win election in a landslide. However, it was soon realized by the cabinet that Tompkins was not fit for office, as he was routinely sick, and sometimes drunk at cabinet meetings. While impressive as a politician earlier in life, his addiction got harder to handle as he got older, possibly because of brain deterioration. When Tompkins used bellicose language in trade deals with the South and with Canada, some feared he might spark a war. His cabinet, hoping to rule through him, hid Tompkins condition from the public by limiting Tompkins's public appearances. Despite this, Tompkins served two terms, and aimed for a 3rd but his health took a turn for the worst and he was nearly dead by the end of his term. Tompkins nearly saw the passage of an expanded suffrage law. News came out about the mechanisms of Tompkins puppeteers, thus pretty much destroying the Republican Party. 

7. John Quincy Adams (MA) Federalist, 1825-1841

Serving for 16 years, Adams, who could have served longer, was one of the most consequential presidents in our history. He saw the abolition of slavery in 1836; although, it had pretty much been phased out already. He broke with some in his party in siding with an expanded suffrage law, realizing that his party would be effectively destroyed if they didn't support it. He purchased California from Mexico; although, he got some criticism for overpaying for it, but Adams and the slight Federalist-leaning Congress saw it as an alternative to taking the prosperous West Coast by force. Adams averted a war with Canada, caused primarily by an attempt by the British to harm the American economy, which had boomed under Clinton's old infrastructure plan. Adams continued this plan, and improved it, forcing modernization in nearly every aspect of life. Under Adams, the Constitution replaced the Bible for the taking of the Oath of office. Adams set up a national observatory, a national university--with branches in every state, and he built the navy to a formidable power. All national university were secular. Adams only major failings as president was his failure to prevent the South from taking Cuba, Florida and New Orleans from Spain. Federalists in his own party were upset by his refusal to purchase New Orleans, which Adams thought would have been futile, since they couldn't defend in the case of an attack. Adams failed to reach an agreement with the South to use the port of New Orleans for trade reasons only. Overall, Adams's presidency was a resounding success. 

8. Martin Van Buren (NY), Democrat, 1841-1849

Van Buren created the Democratic Party from the somewhat fractured Republican Party. For the most part, he purely changed the name. He shifted the focus of the party to supporting the ideals of the people, irregardless of economic practicalities. Thus, the Democrats became more populist than their previous Republican incarnation. Van Buren charged the Federalists with greed and elitism. However, these charges didn't really stick since Adams had helped expand suffrage, and he had allowed the South to take the lucrative city of New Orleans. This allowed Federalists to remain competitive and ultimately led to Van Buren's defeat in an attempt at a 3rd term. Van Buren failed in his attempt to weaken federal banking and reign in spending on infrastructure. He did open several trade deal with Latin America, but failed to encourage them to go for Egyptian cotton rather than Southern cotton. The attempt angered the South, but war waged by the South would have been suicidal, since Clinton-Adams policies had industrialized the country to British levels, and the South was effectively third world. 

9. Daniel Webster (MA), Federalist, 1849-1852

Webster continued and improved upon the Clinton-Adams Modernization program by expanding it to non-coastal areas, and to the West Coast. He encouraged the creation of factories through the interior of the country. Webster vetoed a bill that would have allowed women, African-Americans and Native Americans with college degrees to vote. He cut federal spending to use in infrastructure. Webster failed in his attempt to purchase New Orleans from the South, which was struggling as an underdeveloped country that was being economically suffocated by the North, a prosperous Mexico and by European interference in the Western Hemisphere. Cotton was barely keeping the South afloat. Webster died in office near the end of his term. 

10. Millard Fillmore (NY), Federalist, 1852-1853

Fillmore took office after the death of Webster. Seeing an opportunity to control the future of the South. Fillmore attempted to subsidies the neighboring country in exchange for "renting" New Orleans. While this plan passed the US Congress, the South narrowly voted it down. Fillmore expanded trade to Asia, and attempted, but failed, to restrict immigration to protestants Christians only. He also failed in his attempt to restrain spending by ending Webster's factory program. Fillmore proposed limiting suffrage to protestants only, but only a handful of legislatures proposed or supported such a bill. Fillmore's presidency saw the resurgence of Van Buren's Democratic Party in both houses of Congress. Fillmore, unable to provide leadership, was soundly defeated in the election of 1852. 

TO BE CONTINUED

 

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10 hours ago, vcczar said:

I decided to do a playthrough (simulation only) using only Northern candidates (no future Confederate states). I've come to believe that the majority of our nation's problems throughout history can be boiled down to Southern backwardness. As someone that is Southern born and still living in the South, I believe I can say this both from a historical aspect and from personal experience. As such, I've decided to do a playthrough as if Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia did not sign the Constitution or Articles of Confederation, and that the US became solely the remainder of the original states. I will include all the future states that never became part of the Confederacy. I will give the Southern states Oklahoma, New Mexico, Kentucky, West Virginia and Arizona, however. 

 

I hope you know has condescending that is.

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4 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

I hope you know has condescending that is.

I'm a Southerner. I can get away with saying this. I think the South has been historically backwards, and it still is in certain parts. 

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Just now, vcczar said:

I'm a Southerner. I can get away with saying this. I think the South has been historically backwards, and it still is in certain parts. 

Perhaps geographically.

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3 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

Perhaps geographically.

 

4 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I'm a Southerner. I can get away with saying this. I think the South has been historically backwards, and it still is in certain parts. 

Now, now. Let's me civilized. Either that, or pistols at noon on main street. But something gentlemanly. :P

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3 minutes ago, Patine said:

 

Now, now. Let's me civilized. Either that, or pistols at noon on main street. But something gentlemanly. :P

Nice shot Burr:P

List of people who killed the bank:

  1. Aaron Burr
  2. Andrew Jackson

List of people who the bank killed:

  1. Abraham Lincoln
  2. John F. Kennedy

List of people controlled by the bank because they threatened to kill them:

  1. Woodrow Wilson
  2. Lyndon Baines Johnson

I'll say again, Sweet shot Burr:P

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11 hours ago, vcczar said:

1. John Adams (MA), Federalist, 1789-1801 

Served 12 years, sided with Britain once France executed their King. Expanded the US to Ohio. Secured boundaries with British Canada, and received most favorable trade partner with Britain as part of the deal to enter the War against France. Despite their animosity, Adams adopts Hamilton's economic policies. Adams helps get a law through Congress that allows the government to aid in industrializing the country, especially coastal cities. While aiding Britain in the war, they develop only a token navy, helping Britain mainly by trading with them and not with France. They allow American volunteers to join British ranks, however. 

How many would volunteer to actually join the ranks of the military of a nation they had just finished fighting against less than 2 decades before?

53 minutes ago, Patine said:

 

Now, now. Let's me civilized. Either that, or pistols at noon on main street. But something gentlemanly. :P

I'll be @vcczar's second. :P LET'S TRAVEL TO WEEHAWKEN

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Just now, President Garrett Walker said:

I'll be @vcczar's second. :P

 

Hurts me a little.

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Just now, Reagan04 said:

Hurts me a little.

:P

Also, is Harford County, MD "the South" in your eyes? I see like a billion Confederate and Gadsden flags every time I go through Darlington so I would say yes, but we're north of DC and Baltimore and technically didn't secede, but also slavery was legal here so IDK...

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Just now, President Garrett Walker said:

:P

Also, is Harford County, MD "the South" in your eyes? I see like a billion Confederate and Gadsden flags every time I go through Darlington so I would say yes, but we're north of DC and Baltimore and technically didn't secede, but also slavery was legal here so IDK...

Yeah, we are in my opinion, we have the culture AND below Dixie.

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Just now, Reagan04 said:

Yeah, we are in my opinion, we have the culture AND below Dixie.

Then I must flee under cover of night to a liberal bubble/safe space/sanctuary city, free from the tyranny of Real America

(:P:P:P)

(P.S. "Yeah, we are" wait you live in HarCo?! I inferred through previous interactions that you lived in Baltimore City, I apparently inferred incorrectly. Let's not derail vcczar's thread talking about it though)

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5 minutes ago, President Garrett Walker said:

Then I must flee under cover of night to a liberal bubble/safe space/sanctuary city, free from the tyranny of Real America

(:P:P:P)

(P.S. "Yeah, we are" wait you live in HarCo?! I inferred through previous interactions that you lived in Baltimore City, I apparently inferred incorrectly. Let's not derail vcczar's thread talking about it though)

That might be me mentioning the passing away of his regional church leader, William H. Keeler, the Archbishop of Baltimore, but his ecclesiastical province is quite large.

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22 minutes ago, President Garrett Walker said:

How many would volunteer to actually join the ranks of the military of a nation they had just finished fighting against less than 2 decades before?

And you'd actually be quite surprised and staggered at how often that sort of thing has happened in world history.

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9 hours ago, President Garrett Walker said:

:P

Also, is Harford County, MD "the South" in your eyes? I see like a billion Confederate and Gadsden flags every time I go through Darlington so I would say yes, but we're north of DC and Baltimore and technically didn't secede, but also slavery was legal here so IDK...

In my playthrough, Maryland signed on with the North after the Revolution, as such they are more influenced by Pennsylvania than they are by Virginia. The industrialization and modernization plans have made Maryland appear nothing like the real Maryland of 1850. 

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Continued...

11. Stephen A. Douglas (IL), Democrat, 1853-1861

Douglas becomes the first president not from NY or MA. By the time he has taken office, the modernization plans of the Federalists had built a railroad and factory network from the East Coast to the West Coast. Douglas signs bipartisan legislation networking every town with with rail. Solely because of an advantage in Congress, Douglas is able to push forth the first labor law proposals, many of which pass congress, such as working house conditions, working hours limits, restrictions on some child labor, and some legal protection for workers. He, like many Democrats, declined to offer to "rent" New Orleans from the South. He did, however, threaten war with Mexico if they made any moves on Southern territory, making it a national policy to protect the South in the event of an attack. Douglas's refusal to punish the South over slavery cost him his 3rd term. 

12. Abraham Lincoln (IL), Federalist, 1861-1873

Lincoln continued the standard Federalist modernization programs, put adding colleges throughout the country, poor houses for the poor, and increased and improved the navy and the army. He completely nationalized the banking industry, and made it compulsory that all sea-going merchant ships be updated. His homestead laws made land cheap Westward in hopes of filling in the population in those areas. Lincoln's time in office saw less restrictions on immigration. In foreign policy, Lincoln opened new trade deals with Europe (including Russia), which placed the US on an equal position with those countries, and not one as a lesser power. Controversially, Lincoln threw sanctions on the South over slavery, and forbade any trade with the country on any product in which slavery was used. This sunk the South into a greater depressions, as this country saw more class riots involving poor whites, as well as separate riots involving slaves. Unable to feed many slaves and much of its population, the South allowed freed slaves to leave the country, as well as poor whites looking for jobs. Lincoln and the now Federalist-controlled Congress had a mixed reaction, but ultimately decided that putting these newcomers into factories with the immigrants and their own poor. As such, Lincoln started an advertising campaign of propaganda promising a better life for Southerners, white or black, that would move to the North. The South lost as much as 23% of its population to the North between 1865-1876. Most were shipped West and lived in government houses called "Lincoln Log Cabins," where their housing conditions were superior to those of their former lives in the South, but the working conditions were no less harsh. Lincoln failed to end child labor in the country and he failed to abolish state governments in favor of regional appointed administrators. By the end of his third term, many began to fear immigrants again, and Lincoln's Southern policy was equally unwelcomed, as the country was become diverse too quickly for some. Many believed Lincoln would serve a 4th term, but increased chronic depression, and a possible heart ailment caused him to decline. He died shortly after his term expired. 

 

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2 hours ago, vcczar said:

12. Abraham Lincoln (IL), Federalist, 1861-1869

Lincoln continued the standard Federalist modernization programs, put adding colleges throughout the country, poor houses for the poor, and increased and improved the navy and the army. He completely nationalized the banking industry, and made it compulsory that all sea-going merchant ships be updated. His homestead laws made land cheap Westward in hopes of filling in the population in those areas. Lincoln's time in office saw less restrictions on immigration. In foreign policy, Lincoln opened new trade deals with Europe (including Russia), which placed the US on an equal position with those countries, and not one as a lesser power. Controversially, Lincoln threw sanctions on the South over slavery, and forbade any trade with the country on any product in which slavery was used. This sunk the South into a greater depressions, as this country saw more class riots involving poor whites, as well as separate riots involving slaves. Unable to feed many slaves and much of its population, the South allowed freed slaves to leave the country, as well as poor whites looking for jobs. Lincoln and the now Federalist-controlled Congress had a mixed reaction, but ultimately decided that putting these newcomers into factories with the immigrants and their own poor. As such, Lincoln started an advertising campaign of propaganda promising a better life for Southerners, white or black, that would move to the North. The South lost as much as 23% of its population to the North between 1865-1876. Most were shipped West and lived in government houses called "Lincoln Log Cabins," where their housing conditions were superior to those of their former lives in the South, but the working conditions were no less harsh. Lincoln failed to end child labor in the country and he failed to abolish state governments in favor of regional appointed administrators. By the end of his third term, many began to fear immigrants again, and Lincoln's Southern policy was equally unwelcomed, as the country was become diverse too quickly for some. Many believed Lincoln would serve a 4th term, but increased chronic depression, and a possible heart ailment caused him to decline. He died shortly after his term expired. 

 

1

If Lincoln served 3 terms would that be from 1861-1873?

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2 hours ago, Reagan04 said:

If Lincoln served 3 terms would that be from 1861-1873?

You're right. That should read to 1873. I'll change that now. Thanks. 

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1 hour ago, vcczar said:

You're right. That should read to 1873. I'll change that now. Thanks. 

Of course

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continued...

13. Charles Francis Adams (MA), Democrat (1873-1877)

The third generation of Adams presidents. Adams's presidency saw the end of child labor. He also ended the practice of religious public schools, requiring all public schools to provide a secular education. Additionally, all children would be required to attend a school until the age of 16. Adams hoped to pass some civil service reform, but was stopped by his former party, the Federalists. His presidency was marked by a serious depression, the first to have any real impact on America, which by 1870 had become more economically powerful,and more producing than all other countries in the world combined, thanks to government-funded innovations, inventors, and education, as well as playing patron to the world's greatest minds, and bringing them to the US. While historically significant, Adams's slow reaction to the Depression of 1874 cost him his reelection. 

14. James G. Blaine (ME), Federalist (1877-1893)

Blaine won five elections, but died in office before he could begin his 5th term. His presidency was, of course, influential, but is considered a mixed record for some of his harsh measured. Blaine, a former Speaker of the House, pretty much erased the boundary between the executive and the legislative branches. First, in order to quell America's first serious economic depression, he was able to get the newly Federalist-dominated state legislatures to sign a emergency constitutional amendment to abandon state governments in exchange for government-appointed regional administrators. Secondly, Blaine convinced them to make another constitutional change. That is, the president could propose bills, which must be voted on by Congress. By doing so, he was able to propose bills designed to maximize progress in commercial, industrial, social and economic matters. He also tied all Federal Banks to a single Central Bank, before his presidency ended, New York replaced London as the financial center of the world. By 1881, the depression was over. A maximum employment bill reduced unemployment, nearly to zero, leaving only those adults physically and mentally unfit for work as jobless. All people unable to find work were allowed government-funded menial work (such as placing stamps on letters, cleaning streets, etc.) for a minimum basic income. On a darker note, Blaine's presidency saw a growing populist distrust of Southern immigrants, both poor white and former slaves, who many northerners found as backwards nuisances, and lazy. By 1890, Democrats had taken the house and Blaine was reluctant to sign a law for the creation of a Border Wall between the modernist US and the slaveholding South. Blaine can, however, be created with the emancipation of slavery in the South, which occurred in 1895, as the chief cause for the emancipation was the immigration and travel ban placed on all Southerners. The South would later each an agreement under the next president to free their slaves in exchange for an end of sanctions, including the immigration and travel ban. Blaine was the first president to face an assassination attempt during a protest involving pro-reformist voters. Blaine died in office soon after having been declared the winner in the election of 1892. He had been seriously ill from October 1892, but it was too late for him to bow out of the race. He died in January 1893 with VP Robert Todd Lincoln taking office. 

 

 

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Blaine the Liar from the State of Maine sure did a hell of a lot more here than I could even dream of him doing,

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15 minutes ago, Kingthero said:

Blaine the Liar from the State of Maine sure did a hell of a lot more here than I could even dream of him doing,

Blaine actually accomplished a lot in real life. I don't think any non-president politician in the last quarter of the 19th century got more press than he did, except arguably John Sherman. While considered a "Continental Liar" during his day, he probably would pale compared to the vast majority of our major political figures today. 

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@vcczar

So, how is the land rush to the West (along with the Mexicans, British, and no doubt "unrecognized settler republics" and Native claims) playing out if the North and South were never one nation?

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23 minutes ago, Patine said:

@vcczar

So, how is the land rush to the West (along with the Mexicans, British, and no doubt "unrecognized settler republics" and Native claims) playing out if the North and South were never one nation?

I wish I had the time to elaborate on everything, but I have the US purchasing all territory west of the Mississippi, except for TX, NM, AZ, which goes to the South eventually. I mention California is purchased. Rather than waging war with the native tribes, the North finds a means to assimilate them by giving them their own cities, which allows them to practice their culture, and govern their cities (following Federal law, of course). No doubt, some tribal wars might occur, but I see them greatly reduced. 

I don't really talk much about Canada, but I see Canadian history being about the same. I see Mexico a little more powerful, since the Mexican War never occurs; although, they lose the same territory through purchases. The Southern US economic and aristocracy collapses, leaving the country as the only 3rd world country in the Northern hemisphere (if you don't count island economies). I imagine Mexico taking Central America. 

Also, for now, America is distinctly non-militant, but this might change. 

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12 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I wish I had the time to elaborate on everything, but I have the US purchasing all territory west of the Mississippi, except for TX, NM, AZ, which goes to the South eventually. I mention California is purchased. Rather than waging war with the native tribes, the North finds a means to assimilate them by giving them their own cities, which allows them to practice their culture, and govern their cities (following Federal law, of course). No doubt, some tribal wars might occur, but I see them greatly reduced. 

I don't really talk much about Canada, but I see Canadian history being about the same. I see Mexico a little more powerful, since the Mexican War never occurs; although, they lose the same territory through purchases. The Southern US economic and aristocracy collapses, leaving the country as the only 3rd world country in the Northern hemisphere (if you don't count island economies). I imagine Mexico taking Central America. 

Also, for now, America is distinctly non-militant, but this might change. 

Does not mean there'd be no Monroe Doctrine, and all the inevitable consequences thereof (especially after the German Colonial Program got aggressively started in the 1880's)?

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14 minutes ago, Patine said:

Does not mean there'd be no Monroe Doctrine, and all the inevitable consequences thereof (especially after the German Colonial Program got aggressively started in the 1880's)?

I have no Monroe Doctrine, or similar policy in place at the time. Perhaps one will occur. I have not discussed South America, which may be full colonized. Mexico is more powerful, so it can hold it's own. The South took Cuba. 

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