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NYrepublican

WIP - Israel 1996

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1 minute ago, Ido said:

well, the situations were very similiar in importance, but Begin certainly isn't an ultra-nationalist, at least not in 1977 when he got elected, i just said that in the 50's he wasn''t a nice guy politician

"In politics, you need two things. Allies, yes, but most of all, an enemy." -Former Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney

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in the 50s Begin was a right-wing opposition leader (or at least mascot) against the left-leaning Mapai

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This is the forum for campaign creation not irrelevant discussions on Begin in the '50's

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I know, i was the one to suggest stuff for other scenarios in Israel

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Just now, NYrepublican said:

This is the forum for campaign creation not irrelevant discussions on Begin in the '50's

Sorry, Mr. Speaker...

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also i can help in coming up with ideas for issues in other scenarios, just remember that Gaza/Palestinian stuff issues have a lot more momentum than domestic ones (mostly in present time)

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53 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

This is the forum for campaign creation not irrelevant discussions on Begin in the '50's

 

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Me and @Ido are working together to do a massive overhaul of this scenario.

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OwO

Rabinator.png

 

"I will lead" ~ Yitzhak Rabin

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52 minutes ago, Ido said:

OwO

Rabinator.png

 

"I will lead" ~ Yitzhak Rabin

Probably the greatest PM Israel ever had, cut to a tragic end by a militant, reactionary student...

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

Probably the greatest PM Israel ever had, cut to a tragic end by a militant, reactionary student...

I think Rabin was naive.

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6 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

I think Rabin was naive.

You seem to think anyone who wants to bring a semblance of peace to a region, or at least seriously try, and try to bury old hatchets, as opposed to belligerent, uncompromising warmongers are naïve, it would seem.

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Just now, Patine said:

You seem to think anyone who wants to bring a semblance of peace to a region, or at least seriously try, and try to bury old hatchets, as opposed to belligerent, uncompromising warmongers are naïve, it would seem.

Arafat is not a man to negotiate with. You can't negotiate with someone who wants to kill you.

See this article from WaPo from the time:https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1994/05/26/arafats-loose-lips/ffd735a8-fe5f-4172-87fa-a77b4261c820/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.97e4e46fe973

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1 minute ago, NYrepublican said:

Arafat is not a man to negotiate with. You can't negotiate with someone who wants to kill you.

See this article from WaPo from the time:https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1994/05/26/arafats-loose-lips/ffd735a8-fe5f-4172-87fa-a77b4261c820/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.97e4e46fe973

Well, I guess things must be doomed, as Hamas' leadership wants to kill Jews (and has done so), and Netanyahu and Likud want to kill Palestinians, even civilians, in overkill ways and the slightest provocations, and have done so. My solution, since Arafat is dead, remove BOTH Hamas AND Likud, and their direct allies from all positions of authorities and any place in negotiations.

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Just now, Patine said:

Well, I guess things must be doomed, as Hamas' leadership wants to kill Jews (and has done so), and Netanyahu and Likud want to kill Palestinians, even civilians, in overkill ways and the slightest provocations, and have done so. My solution, since Arafat is dead, remove BOTH Hamas AND Likud, and their direct allies from all positions of authorities and any place in negotiations.

Likud does NOT want to kill palestinians if you want me to point to people who do I will. 

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5 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

Likud does NOT want to kill palestinians if you want me to point to people who do I will. 

Then why are huge air and artillery attacks made by Netanyahu's government on Palestinian and Lebanese territory, killing hundreds, even thousands, of civilians, and destroying civilian infrastructure over such flimsy casus belli as a single soldier, a few teenagers, or such being killed first. It seems like the Likud has a very skewed and warped view on proportion and perspective, there - one akin, seemingly, I might add, to Stalin's.

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Just now, Patine said:

Then why are huge air and artillery attacks made by Netanyahu's government on Palestinian and Lebanese territory, killing hundreds, even thousands, of civilians, and destroying civilian infrastructure over such flimsy casus belli as a single soldier, a few teenagers, or such being killed first. It seems like the Likud has a very skewed and warped view on proportion and perspective, there - one akin, seemingly, I might add, to Stalin's.

Generally these "incidents" are indicative of bigger plans. For example, during the 2014 war we found out that Hamas had a network of terror tunnels it planned to use to infiltrate Israel and kidnap Jews on Yom Kippur or Rosh Hashana.

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"The threat, indeed, is all too plausible to Israeli intelligence officials, who agreed to share with Vanity Fair the backstory of how earlier this year they may have narrowly averted their nation’s own 9/11. The alleged plan of attack (as pieced together by defense and security professionals through electronic intercepts, informants, interrogations of Hamas operatives, as well as computers and satellite imagery obtained from Hamas compounds during the war) was chilling: a surprise assault in which scores of heavily armed Hamas insurgents were supposedly set to emerge from more than a dozen cross-border tunnels and proceed to kill as many Israelis as possible." - Vanity Fair

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1 minute ago, NYrepublican said:

"The threat, indeed, is all too plausible to Israeli intelligence officials, who agreed to share with Vanity Fair the backstory of how earlier this year they may have narrowly averted their nation’s own 9/11. The alleged plan of attack (as pieced together by defense and security professionals through electronic intercepts, informants, interrogations of Hamas operatives, as well as computers and satellite imagery obtained from Hamas compounds during the war) was chilling: a surprise assault in which scores of heavily armed Hamas insurgents were supposedly set to emerge from more than a dozen cross-border tunnels and proceed to kill as many Israelis as possible." - Vanity Fair

Oh, so a "Minority Report" mentality goes in there too. The plot thickens! Even Stalin never thought of levying collective punishment on a people because the NKVD foiled "plans" to commit insurgency or Nazi collaboration. Netanyahu has one-upped the Old Beast From Georgia there...

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Just now, Patine said:

Oh, so a "Minority Report" mentality goes in there too. The plot thickens! Even Stalin never thought of levying collective punishment on a people because the NKVD foiled "plans" to commit insurgency or Nazi collaboration. Netanyahu has one-upped the Old Beast From Georgia there...

Patine, If you know someone is going to kill you tomorrow at a given time would you keep the gun he plans to use to kill you in his house if you could remove it?

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Just now, NYrepublican said:

Patine, If you know someone is going to kill you tomorrow at a given time would you keep the gun he plans to use to kill you in his house if you could remove it?

I would, but I WOULDN'T torch his whole neighbourhood and fire an Uzi at his neighbours while they fled their burning houses. That, allegorically, is the difference I'm talking about.

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Just now, Patine said:

I would, but I WOULDN'T torch his whole neighbourhood and fire an Uzi at his neighbours while they fled their burning houses. That, allegorically, is the difference I'm talking about.

What if he had his weapons around the entire neighborhood and you had no choice but to destroy the entire neighborhood in one fell swoop or put your life in grave danger.

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3 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

What if he had his weapons around the entire neighborhood and you had no choice but to destroy the entire neighborhood in one fell swoop or put your life in grave danger.

If it had gotten to that point, and it were just an allegorical me, I'd move to a gated community in another city and realize the whole community had gone to the dogs. But that would be me, and allegorically speaking.

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3 hours ago, NYrepublican said:

Arafat is not a man to negotiate with. You can't negotiate with someone who wants to kill you.

btw Arafat indirectly said that the Palestinians don't need to adhere to the peace when he was interviewed in the Arab countries

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