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Bruce Fischer

French Presidential Election 2017

2017 French Election  

32 members have voted

  1. 1. Who would you vote for if you could?

    • Marine Le Pen
    • Emmanuel Macron
    • François Fillon
    • Jean-Luc Mélenchon
    • Benoît Hamon
    • Nicholas Dupont-Aignan
      0
    • François Asselineau
      0
    • Jean Lassalle
      0
    • Phillipe Poutou
      0
    • Jacques Cheminade
      0
    • Nathalie Arthaud
      0


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Who'd you vote for in the 2017 French Election if it were held today and you could vote there?

(I know we already did this a few months ago but that was before the fake jobs scandals and the rise of Mélenchon)

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Easy for me Fillon 1st, secondly Le Pen.

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After a certain amount of votes we'll do a run-off (I'm thinking 10-15)

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4 hours ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Easy for me Fillon 1st, secondly Le Pen.

Same

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As in real life, it looks like Le Pen and Macron are tied and going to the run-off.

I'm feeling the #Macronmentum, gotta love me some bland pragmatic centrism. I love it in 'Merica, I love it in France, I love it everywhere.

Let's get a few more votes:

@LokiLoki22 @Patine @Reagan04 @vcczar @Sanser2016 @servo75

 

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Macron. Lepen is a populist who relies on fear and nativism. Macron is not perfect, hell, not even good, but better than the alternative.

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49 minutes ago, LokiLoki22 said:

Macron. Lepen is a populist who relies on fear and nativism. Macron is not perfect, hell, not even good, but better than the alternative.

:LePen will have no power over Parliament if she wins. It'll be a "cohabitation," as they call it in France.

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Just now, Patine said:

:LePen will have no power over Parliament if she wins. It'll be a "cohabitation," as they call it in France.

Still, figurehead effect. Trump has no power over congress, but he can use his pulpit to bully congress into doing things his way. He doesn't seem to have to, but he could.

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Absolutely Macron, Melenchon is a loony communist-lite who wants to ally France with Venezuela/Cuba and pull out of NATO while Le Pen is a neo-nazi in the image of vichy France and if you vote for her, yes, you should be ashamed. Fillion is just plain corrupt, - Hamon is way too much of an idealist with no actual pragmatism to any of his idea's, they all sound good but wouldn't actually work. 

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11 hours ago, Patine said:

:LePen will have no power over Parliament if she wins. It'll be a "cohabitation," as they call it in France.

Presumably, neither would Macron or Mélenchon. Apparently no one cares this time around, since Fillon and Hamon are the only two major candidates who'd have sway over Parliament (assuming there isn't a wave of En Marche!, National Front, or Unsubmissive France candidates who sweep Parliament as well), and yet they're only polling at 19.8% and 7.8%, respectively, while Macron's at 23.3%, Le Pen's at 22.3%, and Mélenchon's at 19%.

8 hours ago, Kauai said:

Absolutely Macron, Melenchon is a loony communist-lite who wants to ally France with Venezuela/Cuba and pull out of NATO while Le Pen is a neo-nazi in the image of vichy France and if you vote for her, yes, you should be ashamed. Fillion is just plain corrupt, - Hamon is way too much of an idealist with no actual pragmatism to any of his idea's, they all sound good but wouldn't actually work. 

Yeah he's a loon but the holograms are cool. 

He reminds me of Bernie to be honest. Marine is Trump, Fillon is Ted Cruz, Macron is Hillary Clinton but not corrupt, old, or uncharismatic, and Hamon is Martin O'Malley.

2 more votes and I'll do a run-off.

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10 hours ago, Kauai said:

Absolutely Macron, Melenchon is a loony communist-lite who wants to ally France with Venezuela/Cuba and pull out of NATO while Le Pen is a neo-nazi in the image of vichy France and if you vote for her, yes, you should be ashamed. Fillion is just plain corrupt, - Hamon is way too much of an idealist with no actual pragmatism to any of his idea's, they all sound good but wouldn't actually work. 

Le Pen is not a neo-Nazi.  I wouldn't argue with you if you accused her father of this, but she is a lot different than her father.  She is focused on putting France first.

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24 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

Le Pen is not a neo-Nazi.  I wouldn't argue with you if you accused her father of this, but she is a lot different than her father.  She is focused on putting France first.

I'm extremely cautious with throwing the phrase "neo-nazi" around because of how strong it is, and I wouldn't call Marine one (Jean-Marie is a different story). That said, Marine isn't as far from her father as she'd like you to believe; she's still extremely nationalistic and xenophobic, even if she now "supports" marriage equality and abortion. Also, she'd do things like ban all religious symbols from being displayed in public, which takes France's secularism a bit to the extreme.

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47 minutes ago, Bruce Fischer said:

I'm extremely cautious with throwing the phrase "neo-nazi" around because of how strong it is, and I wouldn't call Marine one (Jean-Marie is a different story). That said, Marine isn't as far from her father as she'd like you to believe; she's still extremely nationalistic and xenophobic, even if she now "supports" marriage equality and abortion. Also, she'd do things like ban all religious symbols from being displayed in public, which takes France's secularism a bit to the extreme.

Personally, I think terms like "Fascist," "Neo-Nazi," "Communist," "Terrorist," and a few others are bandied about way too freely and casually by many media figures, commentators, pudits, politicians, etc., many of whom seem to have a lack of a grasp of the real definitions of the words, what they really refer to, and the type of people who really deserve such references, especially as the vast majority in the world today casually slapped with those terms are actually, in no way, shape, or form, indicative of what they really mean (Donald Trump has not proven to be a Fascist, and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are a far cry, an ocean away, from being Communists, for instance).

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33 minutes ago, Patine said:

Personally, I think terms like "Fascist," "Neo-Nazi," "Communist," "Terrorist," and a few others are bandied about way too freely and casually by many media figures, commentators, pudits, politicians, etc., many of whom seem to have a lack of a grasp of the real definitions of the words, what they really refer to, and the type of people who really deserve such references, especially as the vast majority in the world today casually slapped with those terms are actually, in no way, shape, or form, indicative of what they really mean (Donald Trump has not proven to be a Fascist, and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are a far cry, an ocean away, from being Communists, for instance).

@Patine You should vote in the poll, that would give me the last vote before I make a new, run-off poll.

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Wait actually @Patine's vote would have no effect on who's in the run-off. Still vote if you want to but I'm going ahead with the run-off now.

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4 hours ago, Bruce Fischer said:

I'm extremely cautious with throwing the phrase "neo-nazi" around because of how strong it is, and I wouldn't call Marine one (Jean-Marie is a different story). That said, Marine isn't as far from her father as she'd like you to believe; she's still extremely nationalistic and xenophobic, even if she now "supports" marriage equality and abortion. Also, she'd do things like ban all religious symbols from being displayed in public, which takes France's secularism a bit to the extreme.

She is nationalistic, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.  She loves her country and wishes for it to be free from the bureaucratic mess of the EU.  While I have not seen much of her (in terms of speaking since I don't know French), I did see her interview with Nigel Farage.  She didn't seem nearly as bad as what many make her out to be.  And, while wanting to reduce immigration, she and her party don't want to get rid of it.  They are for deporting illegals that reside in France and for restricting immigration from terrorist countries.  But, I wouldn't classify her as fearing foreigners.

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1 hour ago, jvikings1 said:

She is nationalistic, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.  She loves her country and wishes for it to be free from the bureaucratic mess of the EU.  While I have not seen much of her (in terms of speaking since I don't know French), I did see her interview with Nigel Farage.  She didn't seem nearly as bad as what many make her out to be.  And, while wanting to reduce immigration, she and her party don't want to get rid of it.  They are for deporting illegals that reside in France and for restricting immigration from terrorist countries.  But, I wouldn't classify her as fearing foreigners.

There's a difference between nationalism and patriotism. I'm a patriot, but not a nationalist. Patriotism is loving your country while accepting that it has flaws, while nationalism is thinking your country is the best and has no flaws. (At least, that's more or less how it was explained to me)

She's exploiting fear of immigrants caused by the recent terrorist attacks for her own political gain. If that's not xenophobic I don't know what is.

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8 minutes ago, Bruce Fischer said:

There's a difference between nationalism and patriotism. I'm a patriot, but not a nationalist. Patriotism is loving your country while accepting that it has flaws, while nationalism is thinking your country is the best and has no flaws. (At least, that's more or less how it was explained to me)

She's exploiting fear of immigrants caused by the recent terrorist attacks for her own political gain. If that's not xenophobic I don't know what is.

Nationalism doesn't necessarily mean that your country cannot do any wrong, but you are right that they think their country is the best.

She is warning about the open border mess that the EU has gotten into.  She is mostly worried about immigration from the Middle East as well as the refugees pouring in because of terrorists infiltrating the country through those programs and committing acts of terror.  Also, she wants to control immigration in order to prevent an overflow of immigrants which is partially the EU's fault.

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38 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

Nationalism doesn't necessarily mean that your country cannot do any wrong, but you are right that they think their country is the best.

She is warning about the open border mess that the EU has gotten into.  She is mostly worried about immigration from the Middle East as well as the refugees pouring in because of terrorists infiltrating the country through those programs and committing acts of terror.  Also, she wants to control immigration in order to prevent an overflow of immigrants which is partially the EU's fault.

 

50 minutes ago, Bruce Fischer said:

There's a difference between nationalism and patriotism. I'm a patriot, but not a nationalist. Patriotism is loving your country while accepting that it has flaws, while nationalism is thinking your country is the best and has no flaws. (At least, that's more or less how it was explained to me)

She's exploiting fear of immigrants caused by the recent terrorist attacks for her own political gain. If that's not xenophobic I don't know what is.

Field Marshal Erwin Rommel, "the Desert Fox," in his personal journals (which didn't surface until the 1960's) made a sharp distinction in that all of his military service, going back to the early days of the Weimar-era strictly defensive and limited Reichswehr, was solely done as a "German patriot," NOT a "Nazi ideologist." He apparently came to think Hitler's strategies were unsound before most others did, called the Waffen-SS being jammed into his divisions "insects," "cockroaches," and other unflattering invertibrae metaphors, as well as choice ephithets on the perceived intelligence of the ultimate commander of the SS, Heinrich Himmler, and his ultimate convictions led to his suicide in the end for his part in the failed assassination/coup attempt of Project Valkyrie.

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1 hour ago, Patine said:

 

Field Marshal Erwin Rommel, "the Desert Fox," in his personal journals (which didn't surface until the 1960's) made a sharp distinction in that all of his military service, going back to the early days of the Weimar-era strictly defensive and limited Reichswehr, was solely done as a "German patriot," NOT a "Nazi ideologist." He apparently came to think Hitler's strategies were unsound before most others did, called the Waffen-SS being jammed into his divisions "insects," "cockroaches," and other unflattering invertibrae metaphors, as well as choice ephithets on the perceived intelligence of the ultimate commander of the SS, Heinrich Himmler, and his ultimate convictions led to his suicide in the end for his part in the failed assassination/coup attempt of Project Valkyrie.

One of the reasons why I respect Rommel from a historical aspect.  He disobeyed direct orders from Hitler when it came to treatment of prisoners.  He is a great example of someone who was an enemy but respectable at the same time.

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I would be a Macron voter for both. Le Pen embodies that nationalistic populism that only serves to embolden both foreign powers (Russia) and domestic terror (France's obvious targeting of muslims with things like the burkini ban). Mélenchon is just as, possibly even more scary than Le Pen, as he calls Russia a "natural ally," while they support/cover up Chechen gay concentration camps, which to me, is the antithesis of a secular nation. Fillion not only doesn't speak to me politically (opposition to LGBT rights, and a general social conservatism), but also is so scandal ridden that he would hand the presidency to Le Pen or Mèlenchon. Macron is hardly inspiring or with adequate plans/policies, but he is by far the most reasonable, he wants to roll back some of France's restrictive economic policy, and is pro-reforming the EU vs just burning it all down.

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11 minutes ago, michaelsdiamonds said:

I would be a Macron voter for both. Le Pen embodies that nationalistic populism that only serves to embolden both foreign powers (Russia) and domestic terror (France's obvious targeting of muslims with things like the burkini ban). Mélenchon is just as, possibly even more scary than Le Pen, as he calls Russia a "natural ally," while they support/cover up Chechen gay concentration camps, which to me, is the antithesis of a secular nation. Fillion not only doesn't speak to me politically (opposition to LGBT rights, and a general social conservatism), but also is so scandal ridden that he would hand the presidency to Le Pen or Mèlenchon. Macron is hardly inspiring or with adequate plans/policies, but he is by far the most reasonable, he wants to roll back some of France's restrictive economic policy, and is pro-reforming the EU vs just burning it all down.

What power would he have to reform the EU?

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2 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

What power would he have to reform the EU?

From a literal standpoint, none. But, as a leader, he can act as a powerful force within the EU. One could argue that the EU is definitely at a place where it reforms or fails, and would have to be blind to not see that and act upon it. Having leadership that supports that is important.

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8 hours ago, michaelsdiamonds said:

From a literal standpoint, none. But, as a leader, he can act as a powerful force within the EU. One could argue that the EU is definitely at a place where it reforms or fails, and would have to be blind to not see that and act upon it. Having leadership that supports that is important.

You are right about the EU needing ti reform. But, I don't see it happening.  The knew a Brexit vote was coming but were not very successful in renegotiating with Great Britain.

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