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vcczar

Hypothetical 2017 Constitutional Convention

The 2017 Constitutional Convention  

24 members have voted

  1. 1. If sent as a delegate to the Constitutional Convention, would your primary goal be to...

    • Preserve the Constitution as it is.
    • Amend the Constitution where it is unclear.
    • Amend the Constitution to make improvements, suitable for the 21st century and beyond.
    • Rewrite the Constitution, since it is archaic
    • Abolish the Constitution, because it's a hindrance
      0
  2. 2. Which of the following articles or amendments of the Constitution would you propose amending?

    • Article One, describing the Congress/legislative branch
    • Article Two, describing the President/executive branch
    • Article Three, describing the Supreme Court/Judicial Branch
    • Article Four, describing the relations between the states and the federal government
    • Article Five, describing the process for amending the Constitution
    • Article Six, establishing the Constitution, and all Federal laws made in accordance with it as the supreme law of the land
    • Article Seven, describing the process for establishing the government
    • 1st Amendment -- Freedom of speech, of religion, of the press, of assembly and the right to petition
    • 2nd Amendment -- the right of individuals to bear arms
    • 3rd Amendment -- prohibits the government from forcing citizens to house soldiers during peacetime without consent
    • 4th Amendment -- protects against unreasonable searches and seizures of self or property
    • 5th Amendment -- establishes judicial protections and requirements for both accused and guilty; also has clause regarding eminent domain
    • 6th Amendment -- protections and rights of those accused of a crime
    • 7th Amendment - extends the right to a trial by jury to civil cases and prohibits a judge from overturning the decision of the jury
    • 8th Amendment -- protects against excessively high bails and from cruel or unusual punishments
    • 9th Amendment -- declares that individuals have other fundamental rights, in addition to those stated in the Constitution.
    • 10th Amendment -- that the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
    • 11th Amendment -- specifically prohibits federal courts from hearing cases in which a state is sued by an individual from another state or another country
    • 12th Amendment -- modifies the way the Electoral College chooses the President and Vice President.
    • None of the above
  3. 3. part 2 of the above

    • 13th Amendment -- abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime.
    • 14th Amendment -- granted United States citizenship to former slaves and to all persons "subject to U.S. jurisdiction".
    • 15th Amendment -- prohibits the federal and state governments from denying a citizen the right to vote based on that citizen's "race, color, or previous condition of servitude".
    • 16th Amendment -- allows the Congress to levy an income tax without apportioning it among the states or basing it on the United States Census.
    • 17th Amendment -- established the popular election of United States Senators by the people of the states.
    • 19th Amendment -- prohibits the states and the federal government from denying the right to vote to citizens of the United States on the basis of sex.
    • 22nd Amendment -- sets a term limit for election and overall time of service to the office of President of the United States.
    • 24th Amendment -- prohibits both Congress and the states from conditioning the right to vote in federal elections on payment of a poll tax or other types of tax.
    • 25th Amendment -- deals with succession to the Presidency and establishes procedures both for filling a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, as well as responding to Presidential disabilities.
    • 26th Amendment -- prohibits the states and the federal government from using age as a reason for denying the right to vote to citizens of the United States who are at least eighteen years old.
    • I would also like to amend one of the "minor" Amendments not mentioned
    • I would like to add an amendment not purely amending an already existing amendment.
    • None of the above


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21 minutes ago, Patine said:

Is that still in the official text?

Apparently, yes.  I didn't know that until I looked up the Article for potential proposals, and was shocked to see it was never repealed.

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I agree with everything @Patine proposes. And for an official repeal/removal of any clauses referencing slavery in this article and future articles. 

To play devil's advocate, I want to make some proposals that I do not expect to pass, and which I may not even vote for: 

- State constitutions are dissolved for the one US Constitution, but state boundaries remain for the purposes of governance

- I'm not quite sure what article this should be in, but it loosely could be in this article: Any fundraising or campaigning for a federal-level state representative (US Rep or US Senator) can only receive money, donor support, etc. from legal residents of that state. This prevents a powerful incumbent from getting a large portion of their money from out-of-state donors (think Ted Cruz, or possibly Bernie Sanders). The people for whom that politician will represent should have sole power of influence on that election. I'd say the same of governors, but they aren't federal level. 

- The states may nullify minor laws (those not protecting civil rights, for national defense, and other determined major laws) at a federal funding penalty to be determined by Congress. "minor" laws would include business regulations, education, and things that often need more flexibility from region to region. I call this the "exception clause" 

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@ThePotatoWalrus @servo75 @pilight @Reagan04 @vcczar @Patine @jvikings1 @Bruce Fischer @MarcoCoolio @Sunnymentoaddict @CalebsParadox @LokiLoki22 @SeanFKennedy @chunkbuster11 @jnewt @SirLagsalott @Sanser2016 @michaelsdiamonds @Falcon @TruthO 

We now will discuss alterations to Article 5 of the Constitution. "Article Five of the United States Constitution describes the process whereby the Constitution, the nation's frame of government, may be altered "

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The only change I have for Article V would be to specify that congress has the power to set a time limit for the states to ratify an amendment.

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I have two proposals

1. The Constitution may be altered through regular Constitutional Conventions to be held every 20 years, provided 2/3 of the states state their intention to attend. 

2. The Constitution may be altered through amendments, as usual, but I will lower the threshold for passing an amendment to a simple majority. 

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I would disagree with lowering the threshold for amendment because it is much more weighty than lawmaking, and would let the party in power repeal whatever parts of the constitution they like. 

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8 hours ago, pilight said:

The only change I have for Article V would be to specify that congress has the power to set a time limit for the states to ratify an amendment.

Actually some amendments like the 18th, did have built-in language indicating a time limit - I wouldn't want to impose a set limit for all amendments.  Example: The amendment barring Congress giving themselves pay raises in the middle of a session had been proposed along with the Bill of Rights, yet was idle for 200 years.  So if a particular amendment has an expiration date, it should be written into the amendment itself.

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3 hours ago, LokiLoki22 said:

I would disagree with lowering the threshold for amendment because it is much more weighty than lawmaking, and would let the party in power repeal whatever parts of the constitution they like. 

Yes I agree.  3/4 is a very difficult mountain to climb but it ensures that an amendment has support from all areas of the country.  For Congress, maybe I could see three-fifths of both houses.  I actually don't think there's much danger in lowering the Congressional threshold slightly (though not a simple majority) since it's not the final step - it still needs 38 states' approval.

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8 hours ago, vcczar said:

I have two proposals

1. The Constitution may be altered through regular Constitutional Conventions to be held every 20 years, provided 2/3 of the states state their intention to attend. 

2. The Constitution may be altered through amendments, as usual, but I will lower the threshold for passing an amendment to a simple majority. 

1. Article V already has provisions for 2/3 of the states to call a ratifying convention.  It seems like your wording only allows every 20 years.  Now something REQUIRING conventions every 10-20 years I could get behind, but I don't know how you force that.

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15 minutes ago, servo75 said:

1. Article V already has provisions for 2/3 of the states to call a ratifying convention.  It seems like your wording only allows every 20 years.  Now something REQUIRING conventions every 10-20 years I could get behind, but I don't know how you force that.

I'll change the proposal to a required convention every 20 years. I also don't know how to force it. 

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Just now, vcczar said:

I'll change the proposal to a required convention every 20 years. I also don't know how to force it. 

Yes, again it seemed like you were proposing "ONLY" every 20 years.  Maybe you could say that in addition to the Convention of States, that a convention would automatically convene every, say 10 years.  If you don't have an amendment posed by 2/3 of the states, then nothing happens.

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24 minutes ago, servo75 said:

Actually some amendments like the 18th, did have built-in language indicating a time limit - I wouldn't want to impose a set limit for all amendments.  Example: The amendment barring Congress giving themselves pay raises in the middle of a session had been proposed along with the Bill of Rights, yet was idle for 200 years.  So if a particular amendment has an expiration date, it should be written into the amendment itself.

It's always been constitutionally questionable whether congress has the authority to set such time limits.  

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51 minutes ago, pilight said:

It's always been constitutionally questionable whether congress has the authority to set such time limits.  

Just to be clear, are you not wanting to set a time limit, but allow Congress to set a limit for a given amendment that they pass?

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16 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

Just to be clear, are you not wanting to set a time limit, but allow Congress to set a limit for a given amendment that they pass?

That's correct.  Not saying they are required to, not specifying a time limit, just clarifying that congress does in fact have the authority to set a deadline.

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11 hours ago, vcczar said:

@ThePotatoWalrus @servo75 @pilight @Reagan04 @vcczar @Patine @jvikings1 @Bruce Fischer @MarcoCoolio @Sunnymentoaddict @CalebsParadox @LokiLoki22 @SeanFKennedy @chunkbuster11 @jnewt @SirLagsalott @Sanser2016 @michaelsdiamonds @Falcon @TruthO 

We now will discuss alterations to Article 5 of the Constitution. "Article Five of the United States Constitution describes the process whereby the Constitution, the nation's frame of government, may be altered "

I would consider possibly replacing 2/3 state legislatures approving with a national referendum with a 60-75% (depending) threshold in that prerequisite's place.

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