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ScottM

New scenarios for PM4E 2013

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I'm working on the 1920 U. S. election and the 1997 Canadian election (since I FINALLY got the 2000 scenario fixed) right now, but I'm thinking about adding some Australian elections to my queue. I'll probably start with 2007 and 2004. Would there be any interest in this?

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There really need to be more Australian scenarios. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the state elections, like QLD 2012 and NSW 2011. When the final version was released I was planning on doing a much more in depth 2010 scenario. But as the years go by (it's been nearly two now), the memory of the election is slowly fading away.

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There really need to be more Australian scenarios. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the state elections, like QLD 2012 and NSW 2011. When the final version was released I was planning on doing a much more in depth 2010 scenario. But as the years go by (it's been nearly two now), the memory of the election is slowly fading away.

I had the idea of NSW 2011 myself, but I'd need a map and a few more resources. I think state elections are an excellent idea.

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Unfortunately, I wouldn't be too much help on state elections. I might be able to "assist" if someone else was working on one and laid out exactly what they wanted me to do for certain parts, however.

What I was considering doing was using the 2007 and 2004 scenarios from the old version of the game as a starting point and then adapting them making what changes are necessary to convert them to the new game.

Either way, my interest in Australian politics is increasing a lot recently, so I'd like to learn more about it, and I think this will be a good way to do it. So, I think I'll go ahead with my plans for those federal elections, and I'll make myself available to help with some state scenarios, as well.

I do have a question about state elections, though. Maybe you can answer this, Alfonzo. Don't some state elections use different voting methods than the preferential method used in federal elections? If so, what's the best engine to simulate that?

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Unfortunately, I wouldn't be too much help on state elections. I might be able to "assist" if someone else was working on one and laid out exactly what they wanted me to do for certain parts, however.

What I was considering doing was using the 2007 and 2004 scenarios from the old version of the game as a starting point and then adapting them making what changes are necessary to convert them to the new game.

Either way, my interest in Australian politics is increasing a lot recently, so I'd like to learn more about it, and I think this will be a good way to do it. So, I think I'll go ahead with my plans for those federal elections, and I'll make myself available to help with some state scenarios, as well.

I do have a question about state elections, though. Maybe you can answer this, Alfonzo. Don't some state elections use different voting methods than the preferential method used in federal elections? If so, what's the best engine to simulate that?

There's an old 1996 scenario floating around too.

NSW and QLD use OPV - where voters can fill out as many or as few preferences as they wanted, much like the proposed AV system in the UK. The rest of Australia uses CPV, where voters must give all preferences. Disappointingly, the current PM4E engine is much better at simulating OPV preferences than CPV. The old PM4E 2007 engine did preferences perfectly, but the new one is a major step backwards. Though it does make OPV preference flows really easy, assuming you know how the flows will go beforehand.

For future reference, a venerable gold mine for Australian electoral matters is Antony Green's blog. It includes data like preference flows at each election, which I used in the past to compare preference flows simulated by the old PM4E 2007 engine to how they actually flowed at the 2007 election.

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There's an old 1996 scenario floating around too.

NSW and QLD use OPV - where voters can fill out as many or as few preferences as they wanted, much like the proposed AV system in the UK. The rest of Australia uses CPV, where voters must give all preferences. Disappointingly, the current PM4E engine is much better at simulating OPV preferences than CPV. The old PM4E 2007 engine did preferences perfectly, but the new one is a major step backwards. Though it does make OPV preference flows really easy, assuming you know how the flows will go beforehand.

For future reference, a venerable gold mine for Australian electoral matters is Antony Green's blog. It includes data like preference flows at each election, which I used in the past to compare preference flows simulated by the old PM4E 2007 engine to how they actually flowed at the 2007 election.

Thanks for the tip on that blog. It looks quite interesting.

I'm somewhat disappointed to hear that verdict on the newer engine's handling of preferences. I think I'll go ahead with my plans though, because I like the user interface of it better, and I like not being limited to only four parties.

Another question: On Wikipedia, I noticed that the Family First Party seems to consistently receive 2-3% of the vote.

In your personal opinion, do you think they should be included in the scenarios, or are they just really not a factor at all?

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Thanks for the tip on that blog. It looks quite interesting.

I'm somewhat disappointed to hear that verdict on the newer engine's handling of preferences. I think I'll go ahead with my plans though, because I like the user interface of it better, and I like not being limited to only four parties.

Another question: On Wikipedia, I noticed that the Family First Party seems to consistently receive 2-3% of the vote.

In your personal opinion, do you think they should be included in the scenarios, or are they just really not a factor at all?

It would be great to see a scenario involving most of Australia's minor parties, including Family First, the Sex Party, and some of the other ones that have contested lower house seats. I wouldn't mind seeing the "independent" party split up too. Ind Right - Bob Katter, Tony Crook (WA National), Ind Centre - Tony Windsor, Rob Oakshott, Ind Left - Andrew Wilkie. Something like that would better resolve independents in the game I think.

But with regards to a realistic, playable scenario without much clutter. Family First do get about 2-3% of the vote, but nearly all of that is distributed to the Liberals anyway. So I don't think the presence of Family First makes much of a difference to the game.

I wish the game engine was designed to better handle minor parties and independents. Parties that don't want to compete on the federal stage, just focus on a few seats or a few states (such as the WA Nationals in WA or One Nation in Queensland). UK scenarios would benefit greately from this too I believe.

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I've started on the 2007 Australian election. I'm adding a few more newspapers to the endorsers list than are in the 2010 scenario, and I'll add independent candidates that couldn't be included in the previous game due to the four party limit. I'll be the first to admit that while I'm studying Australian politics to get a better grasp on them, I'm not as knowledgeable on them as I am US or Canadian politics, so I'll be glad to get tips and suggestions from anyone who's more knowledgeable.

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I've started on the 2007 Australian election. I'm adding a few more newspapers to the endorsers list than are in the 2010 scenario, and I'll add independent candidates that couldn't be included in the previous game due to the four party limit. I'll be the first to admit that while I'm studying Australian politics to get a better grasp on them, I'm not as knowledgeable on them as I am US or Canadian politics, so I'll be glad to get tips and suggestions from anyone who's more knowledgeable.

I wrote a list of potential party leaders a while back which would be nice to add. I just need to find that e-mail. I can also help with a better list of crusaders (I really don't think Kevin Rudd would be a crusader for Julia in 2010 :P).

For endorsers, there's this list for the 2010 election:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_federal_election,_2010#Newspaper_endorsements

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I wrote a list of potential party leaders a while back which would be nice to add. I just need to find that e-mail. I can also help with a better list of crusaders (I really don't think Kevin Rudd would be a crusader for Julia in 2010 :P ).

For endorsers, there's this list for the 2010 election:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_federal_election,_2010#Newspaper_endorsements

Do you happen to have an endorsers list for 2007? I'm working on that one now, but an expanded/improved 2010 scenario wouldn't be a bad idea either. The idea of adding the minor parties that we discussed briefly could probably be thrown into that one. I want to do a 2004 scenario at some point, too. For some reason, I've got Australia on my mind lately. :D

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I'll definitely be working on an updated 2010 at some point. I'll probably put in queue ahead of 2004. While editing the files to create a 2007 scenario, I noticed that the "right" and "far right" positions are the same for all issues and the same is true for "left" and "far left." I also found there were no campaign events and few endorsers in the scenario. Therefore, I'm putting it on my "for sure" list, and I'll probably add at least the Family First party.

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Do you happen to have an endorsers list for 2007? I'm working on that one now, but an expanded/improved 2010 scenario wouldn't be a bad idea either. The idea of adding the minor parties that we discussed briefly could probably be thrown into that one. I want to do a 2004 scenario at some point, too. For some reason, I've got Australia on my mind lately. :D

I couldn't find an endorsers list for 2007. The newspapers would all be the same. I'm trying to think back if there are any other possible endorsers (politicians, lobby groups and the likes). Probably a few unions and business lobby groups.

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I added the Family First Party, Australian Democrats, and Christian Democratic Party to the 2007 scenario. In the preferences file, should I give all of the Family First and Christian Democratic vote to the Liberals and all of the Australian Democrat vote to Labor, or should I make it more split?

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I added the Family First Party, Australian Democrats, and Christian Democratic Party to the 2007 scenario. In the preferences file, should I give all of the Family First and Christian Democratic vote to the Liberals and all of the Australian Democrat vote to Labor, or should I make it more split?

http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2010/10/preference-flows-at-the-2010-election.html

This should be perfect.

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Is anyone interested in helping me with my proposed New South Wales 2011 scenario I mentioned above?

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Is anyone interested in helping me with my proposed New South Wales 2011 scenario I mentioned above?

Sure, if I can. Like I said before, my knowledge of Australian politics isn't quite what I wish it was, but if I have something specific to do, I may be able to help. Besides, this might be a good way to learn more. :)

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Sure, if I can. Like I said before, my knowledge of Australian politics isn't quite what I wish it was, but if I have something specific to do, I may be able to help. Besides, this might be a good way to learn more. :)

I have the Wiki article on this election bookmarked, and it's reasonably comprehensive. Also, unlike some countries I've done elections for (like Austria and Japan), Australia's electoral records online are in English. I do, however, need a map and party logos, if different from the federal parties, to really get started.

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Unfortunately, I'm still not much use as far as making maps.

As far as I can tell from a bit of searching, the party logos seem to be the same.

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Unfortunately, I'm still not much use as far as making maps.

As far as I can tell from a bit of searching, the party logos seem to be the same.

Well, I have a map of the constituencies of NSW, with the Greater Sydney Area ones in an inset, but I'm just not sure the best way to group them into game map regions or what to call those regions.

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Well, I have a map of the constituencies of NSW, with the Greater Sydney Area ones in an inset, but I'm just not sure the best way to group them into game map regions or what to call those regions.

This might help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_New_South_Wales

The links to the articles on each region under informal regions give details about what areas are included. Some are more specific than others but maybe it's a start anyway.

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