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Republic of Ireland Dail Elections

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In 2007 (and 2002), Fine Gael gave up on people who were prospering from the large economic expansion, and instead tried to win votes from people who weren't benefitting as much. Unfortunately for them, most people were indeed doing well from the boom. On practically any economic question, their policy is more government spending.

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I played through it once as Labour, won about 20-25 seats, I think. It's a good scenario, though as in some previous Ireland scenarios, Sinn Fein seems to do better than they do IRL.

Also, aren't Fine Gael actually a bit to the right of Fianna Fail on economic policy? This scenario seemed to have it the other way around, with FG embracing more centrist and center-left positions on the economic compared to FF.

Traditionally FG is the middle-class party and Fianna Fail the peasant and working class party. Of course, this has changed due to the Celtic Tiger era and the decision of FF to align itself with the PD's and the joining of Labour to FG. However, this may change again with FG in the conservative EPP and FF in the ALDE. Of course I defer to Gaffney on Irish issues.

I'll reduce Sinn Fein's numbers in the 2007 so that it doesn't do as well. I did up the penalty they take for their erratic position change on tax and economic policy.

Anyways, what about the 2002 scenario?

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GOP Progressive is quite right. Irish political history lesson follows.

Fianna Fáil was first successful as a peasants' party in the 1930s. Later it added support from the working-class in cities and towns. Fine Gael was, and is, the party of professionals and rich farmers, the Irish middle-class and Protestants. Labour had the votes of small-town workers and not much else. In particular, it didn't appeal to the urban working class in the same way that other European left-wing parties did. For example, in the 1948 election, Labour won just 3 seats out of 30 in Dublin, then 2 in 1951, 4 in 1954, 1 in 1957, and 1 out of 34 in 1961.

After 1959, Fianna Fáil became more "economic liberal" and free-trading; they reversed their protectionist policy and advocated EEC membership. During the 1960s, Fine Gael came under strong social democratic influences while in opposition, whereas the Labour Party gained lots of urban deputies, both workers and intellectuals, who made it more socialist than it was when it was just a small-town workers' party.

Since the 1980s, there have been two important phenomena affecting Irish politics. First, the breakdown in traditional authority let loose a lot of small parties, like the PDs and Greens. We have had only coalition governments since 1989, and in practice the junior partner in the coalition determined policy. Everyone cut taxes from their ridiculously high 1980s rates, but tax cuts were faster in X+PD governments and slower in X+Labour governments. Second, we had a series of national wage agreements that determined much of Ireland's fiscal policy. At the start, trade unions accepted wage freezes in exchange for tax cuts for workers. Later, they used wage agreements to drive up pay for government sector workers.

These two trends make it hard to identify a clear left-right divide between FF and FG in recent years, because other participants in politics have determined so much of the policy direction. But in 2009, the PDs collapsed, so there is no longer a small right-wing party, and the national wage agreement process collapsed also. So party politics could be a lot more ideological from now on.

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I think that FF and FG are both christian democratic parties in the European sense.

However, where does the former PD support will now go?

I'll reduce Sinn Fein's numbers in the 2007 so that it doesn't do as well. I did up the penalty they take for their erratic position change on tax and economic policy.

Is the Republic's faction of Sinn Féin have such a high support and are they untouchables in coalition talks?

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I think that FF and FG are both christian democratic parties in the European sense.

They are more economic liberal than any European Christian Democrats.

However, where does the former PD support will now go?

FG, because they are both strongly middle-class parties.

Is the Republic's faction of Sinn Féin have such a high support and are they untouchables in coalition talks?

Nobody has needed them for a coalition yet. If they were needed, maybe they would not be so untouchable any more.

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Thanks. It's good to have somebody here who know very much about politics in Ireland.

Also, is Sinn Féin more ecomically and socially left-wing than Labour?

Yes. In many respects, they are like an establishment far-left party in other European countries, like the big Socialist parties of Scandinavia. Except that they also have a terrorist army.

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The party used to be a Christian socialist party, but moved toward Communism in the 1970s. However, its Catholics are why the party isn't as militantly socially liberal and anti-clerical as other left-wing parties in Europe. This is just from what I understand, since its leadership seems to vacillate on issues like abortion, gay rights, and whatnot.

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The party used to be a Christian socialist party, but moved toward Communism in the 1970s. However, its Catholics are why the party isn't as militantly socially liberal and anti-clerical as other left-wing parties in Europe. This is just from what I understand, since its leadership seems to vacillate on issues like abortion, gay rights, and whatnot.

Social issues are a really touchy area for them. The party is an uncomfortable mix of left-wing activists, mainly in the Republic, and republican activists, mainly in Northern Ireland. So they don't talk about things that might split them much. Obviously, moral issues are not even an important subject for them, since their raison d'etre is to advocate Irish unification and left-wing economics.

The last time policy issues became a source of conflict, there was a split. The Southern/Communist faction was in the majority; they quickly gave up terrorism and renamed themselves the Workers Party. Then there was another split, when almost everyone left to form the Democratic Left, which later merged into the Labour Party. Basically, they moved a little further to the right each time. The Northern/Catholic faction and the IRA quit and created a new organisation; they were known as the Provisional IRA and Provisional Sinn Féin, which is why they were called the Provos or the Provisionals in the 70s and 80s. When Official Sinn Féin/IRA changed their name, everyone just called the Provos by the name of Sinn Féin. That is why the largely Northern leadership of Sinn Féin at the moment seems a lot less left-wing than the party in the South.

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Just two questions.

Are the Sinn Féin MP that don't take their seats in Westminster have an office for their constituents?

Also, are sitting MP from NI in Westminster can be in the cabinet at condition that there is a certain coalition with the governing party and do NI parties in Westminster have a shadow cabinet?

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Just two questions.

Are the Sinn Féin MP that don't take their seats in Westminster have an office for their constituents?

Also, are sitting MP from NI in Westminster can be in the cabinet at condition that there is a certain coalition with the governing party and do NI parties in Westminster have a shadow cabinet?

Yes. They also have offices in Westminster, like any other MP. They also have expenses, and they were involved in the expenses scandal, even though they don't attend Parliament!

NI MPs are the same as any other MPs. It's just that they are normally in opposition at Westminster, because their parties are small and not normally in coalitions. There is now a Conservative-Ulster Unionist coalition and David Cameron has said that he would appoint UUP ministers. NI parties are too small to have meaningful shadow cabinets at Westminster, but they do have teams of spokespeople in the Northern Ireland Assembly.

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Yes. They also have offices in Westminster, like any other MP. They also have expenses, and they were involved in the expenses scandal, even though they don't attend Parliament!

Political corruption of course don't have a colour!

For the 2010 election, will the scandal will affect the NI parties based on the latest polls?

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Political corruption of course don't have a colour!

For the 2010 election, will the scandal will affect the NI parties based on the latest polls?

I'm more up-to-date on mainland British politics, so EGaffney may be able to correct me, but I think the expenses scandal will probably take a backseat to Gerry Adams' family troubles [questions about his brother] on the Sinn Fein side and the Iris Robinson scandal (are they really calling it Irisgate?) on the Democratic Unionist side. Again, I'm not an expert, but that's the way it looks to me.

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I'm more up-to-date on mainland British politics, so EGaffney may be able to correct me, but I think the expenses scandal will probably take a backseat to Gerry Adams' family troubles [questions about his brother] on the Sinn Fein side and the Iris Robinson scandal (are they really calling it Irisgate?) on the Democratic Unionist side. Again, I'm not an expert, but that's the way it looks to me.

Yeah, Mrs Robinson's scandal will be on top - very salacious, even more so when you remember that the DUP is Europe's answer to bible-bashing US Republicans. Plus, she's called Mrs Robinson, which is just perfect for an affair with a man 40 years younger than her.

On the other hand, expenses is not an issue where one party was better than the others, and as for Gerry Adams, republican voters may not like him, but they don't really have an alternative, given that the SDLP is, sadly, incompetent.

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Yeah, Mrs Robinson's scandal will be on top - very salacious, even more so when you remember that the DUP is Europe's answer to bible-bashing US Republicans. Plus, she's called Mrs Robinson, which is just perfect for an affair with a man 40 years younger than her.

On the other hand, expenses is not an issue where one party was better than the others, and as for Gerry Adams, republican voters may not like him, but they don't really have an alternative, given that the SDLP is, sadly, incompetent.

Was there a swing to Sinn Fein in the late 90's and early 00's, or was it more that nationalists/republicans were abandoning the SDLP? I've never been quite able to figure that out. Did people just become more extreme in their politics? The DUP surpassed the UUP in that era as well...

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Note that the decline of the SDLP had been less than expected in the last Euro election.

I am no expert, but I think this is due to two facts:

-The departure of John Hume.

-The fact that the party was considered too soft on Irish Nationalism and reunification as compared to Sinn Féin especially when Sinn Féin decided to end violent activities a few years ago.

However, I must frankly say that I don't like sectarian politics like those in NI except that they make good political scenarios. I am personally a catholic and I am sympathetic to the moderate elements in both the Unionist and Nationalist side (and this especially with the Republic libertarian approach to the economy since the 80's) , but I don't think that political parties that are only based on religion (expect of course for the Alliance, which I am very surprised that is not stronger especially among non-religious people or immigrants) makes a very good mix.

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Was there a swing to Sinn Fein in the late 90's and early 00's, or was it more that nationalists/republicans were abandoning the SDLP? I've never been quite able to figure that out. Did people just become more extreme in their politics? The DUP surpassed the UUP in that era as well...

Sinn Féin became more acceptable after the IRA called ceasefire in 1997. The extreme parties became more popular, because when the four big parties had to co-operate, the extremes were seen as being more forceful in defending community interests than the moderates.

However, I must frankly say that I don't like sectarian politics like those in NI except that they make good political scenarios. I am personally a catholic and I am sympathetic to the moderate elements in both the Unionist and Nationalist side (and this especially with the Republic libertarian approach to the economy since the 80's) , but I don't think that political parties that are only based on religion (expect of course for the Alliance, which I am very surprised that is not stronger especially among non-religious people or immigrants) makes a very good mix.

I agree; our organisation worked with the Alliance Party on campaigns. But the truth is that they are even more incompetent than the SDLP. Their 2009 European Parliament election candidate defected to the Conservative Party about 2-3 months after he was a candidate. The other thing: non-religious people would normally identify with either the nationalist or the unionist community, because there were very few non-religious families in Northern Ireland a generation ago. There are few immigrants in Northern Ireland, because it was poor and violent until recently. Anna Lo, an ethnic Chinese immigrant, is an MLA for the Alliance Party.

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Replace the more transient issues, like Childrens' Rights, with issues more relevant to 2002 like Privatisation, Deregulation, etc. I can give you issue positions if you like.

The opposition parties in 2002 should be weaker than in 2007. Noonan from FG should be 2/3/2/3/2 charisma. Quinn from Labour should be 3/4/3/4/3, Ahern 4/3/5/3/5, Harney 3/4/4/4/3; again, experience represents "economic competence".

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Maybe im a ltiile late but i just signed up.

Could you send me the ireland scenarios please, seems really interesting. E-Mail is thewhorock93@hotmail.co.uk

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u send it yet? been dieing to play this scenarios ofr a good while. Im actually a member of one of the parties involved.

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