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Canada-US union 2010

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After much thought I've decided to go ahead and do this one. I need ALOT of help with the map as my first attempt was a disaster. I'm keeping most of the same issues and have a pretty good idea on canditates. The scenario is set in 2010 under a year after Canada and the USA merged because of economic collaspse and the need to compete with the EU. This may take a while and any help will be appreciated.

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I have a pretty good knowledge of Canadian politics. Most of Canada outside of Alberta and maybe sasketchewan will go democratic since conservatives in canada are alot more liberal then GOPers in the US.

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They way I put the Canadian EVs is follows:

Ontario: 21

Quebec: 13

BC: 9

Alberta:7

Manitoba:4

Sasketchewan:4

All Remaining provinces:3

The three territories as a whole: 3 since its the mininum. Would really be alot less.

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They way I put the Canadian EVs is follows:

Ontario: 21

Quebec: 13

BC: 9

Alberta:7

Manitoba:4

Sasketchewan:4

All Remaining provinces:3

The three territories as a whole: 3 since its the mininum. Would really be alot less.

Think that's exactly how I had it, and i agree, but you are going to put the territories as 3 all togother, right (as opposed to three each).

Here are some candidate suggestions (in order of rough standings). This is expecting that you will have three parties, with the NDP being a fringe third party (comparable to the liberatarians on the far right). The Bloc could possibly exist, but only in Quebec. The only place I would really give the NDP a shot is in Manitoba, where they form the provincial government

NDP

Jack Layton (doing well Canada wide)

Dennis Kucinich (doing well across the U.S.)

Ralph Nader (rivaling Kucinich for the U.S.)

Garry Doer (has the praires as his stronghold)

Liberal

Barack Obama (doing well in U.S. and Canada)

Hillary Clinton (doing well in U.S. and okay in Canada)

John Edwards (average in across the U.S and a little bit in Canada)

Stefan Dion (north east is his stronghold, Ontario, Quebec, maritimes, new england)

Bob Rae (norh east)

Michael Ignatieff (north east)

Gerald Kennedy (north east)

Stephan Dion (north east)

Conservative

John McCain (doing well in his primary states) (maybe too old?)

Mitt Romney (doing well in his primary states)

Stephen Harper (doing good in western Canada and maritimes and around 5% in the U.S. maybe?)

Mike Huckabee (doing excellent in the south)

Rudy Guiliani (doing okay in the north east)

Plus a few other Canadians to contest Harper in Canada

Liberatarians

Ron Paul

Bob Barr

These are just some suggestions, you could make it really interesting with former star candidates and presidents/pm's (Paul Martin, Bush, Clinton) or you could go on more of a realistic side and just put people who would logically run.

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Yes the territories will all be one. Any suggestions on a name?

I think the NDP could do well in some very liberal US states ( oregon, vermont DC ect) but should have little showing anywhere else. I may add a green party since they're pretty popular in Canada. congress should stay the same in the US and I'll do the majorities for Canada based on house seats and premiers. I'll add the block but only in Quebec as a french seperatist party. What about an anti union party aswell? How bout stockwell day as harpers main far right oponent for Canada.

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Yes the territories will all be one. Any suggestions on a name?

I think the NDP could do well in some very liberal US states ( oregon, vermont DC ect) but should have little showing anywhere else. I may add a green party since they're pretty popular in Canada. congress should stay the same in the US and I'll do the majorities for Canada based on house seats and premiers. I'll add the block but only in Quebec as a french seperatist party. What about an anti union party aswell?

Territories could be the: Northwest Territories or Rupertsland (the orginal name of all the area the governemt bought in the the late 1800's).

The NDP could be competitive in those places, maybe 30% of the vote, or is that too much.

Greens would get around 5%, the only place I see them as being really strong would be B.C., but I haven't paid that mcu attention to the Greens lately. Maybe 5% in Canada, a little bit more in B.C.

The Bloc will be good in Quebec . An anti-union would be hard to find candidates, the only people would be congress leaders/members of parliament who have given very protectionist views. The good thing about an anti-union party would be that there would only need to be one party, it wouldn't need to be two parties (like a U.S. one and a Canada one) because thel eader does not matter, the first tihng they would do would be to seperate the country, AMericans would vote for a Canadian if they promised them that as president.

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Why not use the US parties? The challenge with such a scenario would to win as the GOP, since the Canadian provinces would favour the Dems by a huge margin (the latest polls have shown that even Alberta prefers the Dems over the GOP by a margin of 2 to 1).

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You should have anti-unionists. David Orchard would be good to represent the Canadian side and Pat Buchanan for the U.S.

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Not really a politician but Lou Dobbs seems like a guy who would oppose a union.

Great idea

Why not use the US parties? The challenge with such a scenario would to win as the GOP, since the Canadian provinces would favour the Dems by a huge margin (the latest polls have shown that even Alberta prefers the Dems over the GOP by a margin of 2 to 1).

Wouldn't work at all. Dems could win this one without campaigning. This would basically just be the 2008 scenario giving the dems a 75+ E.V. advantage.

You should have anti-unionists. David Orchard would be good to represent the Canadian side and Pat Buchanan for the U.S.

Great idea

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Why not use the US parties? The challenge with such a scenario would to win as the GOP, since the Canadian provinces would favour the Dems by a huge margin (the latest polls have shown that even Alberta prefers the Dems over the GOP by a margin of 2 to 1).

The oppisition to the GOP in Canada is more likely anti-bush than it is idelogogical. Bush is portrayed as more of an idiotic war monger in the Canadian media than he is int he US media. Provinces like alberta would probably after 2 years to fotget bush go for the GOP. There used to be a far right party in Canada, the Alliance that was just as conservative as the GOP and they in 2000 won a majoirty of seats in BC Alberta and Sasketchewan. In the presence of a more conservative major party the PC always did terrible. The Reform and Alliance parties made the PC non existent between 93 and 2000. I think the GOP should be a strong competitor and front runner in the west.

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The oppisition to the GOP in Canada is more likely anti-bush than it is idelogogical. Bush is portrayed as more of an idiotic war monger in the Canadian media than he is int he US media. Provinces like alberta would probably after 2 years to fotget bush go for the GOP. There used to be a far right party in Canada, the Alliance that was just as conservative as the GOP and they in 2000 won a majoirty of seats in BC Alberta and Sasketchewan. In the presence of a more conservative major party the PC always did terrible. The Reform and Alliance parties made the PC non existent between 93 and 2000. I think the GOP should be a strong competitor and front runner in the west.

The Reform Party was fairly conservative, and could be viewed as the GOPs more moderate cousin. Yet even they backed much of the existing social safety net—well beyond anything the Republicans or conservative Democrats would support in the US.

The Alliance was, explicitly, quite a bit less conservative than Reform.

Due to the vagaries of the First-Past-The-Post system the Progressive Conservatives did poorly in seats (16% of the vote got them 2 seats in 1993), but retained deep support in Atlantic and Central Canada. Typically speaking they got a % of vote not that much lower than the Reform/Alliance Party but because it was widespread while the Reform/Alliance was concentrated in the West they got far fewer seats.

Basically if Reform only existed west of Manitoba and the Progressive Conservatives only existed east of that line then they'd likely have formed a minority government in coalition with each other at some point during the '90s or early '00s—instead they split the right-wing vote, and so hurt their combined chances.

Overall if Canada suddenly (due to, I suppose, alien space bats) became part of the USA almost all provinces would vote Democratic, with Alberta being a wild card. To be sure there would be a good bunch of conservative "Blue Dog" Democrats and moderate Republicans in the House, but the Republican Party is so far to the right of Canadian ideology (at this moment in time—the Republican Party of the 1980s would have appeal in Ontario, the Republican Party of the '60s & '70s would be competitive in Canada) that, as mentioned, adding Canada would just be adding a big block of Electoral College votes to the Democratic side at the Presidential level.

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The oppisition to the GOP in Canada is more likely anti-bush than it is idelogogical.

It's both. The GOP is generally viewed as far too religiously motivated, scarily militaristic and basically bought lock stock and barrel by corporate America. For example, probably our most pro-military public figure, Jack Granatstein, thinks they are reckless and scary. Most polls have about 15% of Canadians liking the Republican candidate, and even then, I would say most of that is due to hating the Democrats moreso than Republican support. Personality can change things a bit: Bush Sr. was generally respected here, if not loved.

Alliance wasn't "far right," per se: Their platform was really poorly thought up (They only finished their leadership race a few months before the election), and the leader, Stockwell Day, prone to putting his foot in his mouth.

I may add a green party since they're pretty popular in Canada.

Not really. One columnist here compared them to a web-site "Hit bucket", where really just the name attracted some votes. Lizzy May might change things in the future, but the last two elections, they didn't really affect much.

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Considering thrid parties rarely capture 4 or 5 percent of the vote in the US the green party would be pretty popular by American standards. We may have to make it a little less realistic to keep the GOP competitive. Since Obama was president and it didn't work out well that might change some canadian voters minds. American modertes like Mccain would do better in Canada then more conservative canditates. But looking at it the GOP is probably closer to the CPC platform then the Democrats are. I think the die hard harper supporters in the west can make the GOP and contender out there and with the Lierals and the NDP possibly splitting the vote in BC may also help them there. If we assume the bloc takes quebec like they always do and a skilled GOPer takes the west the Demo wins in Ontario and the maritimes are almost moot.

Anyways I desperatly need help on a map. I tried combining the President forever 2008 and prime minister maps but it didn't work too well.

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An anti-unionist party is a great idea. The Anti-Unionists would take votes away from the Conservatives the same way the NDP will take away votes from the Liberals.

Who is the incumbent in this scenario?

I'd recommend putting Jennifer Granholm in as a Liberal. She wouldn't be that likely a candidate, but being born in Canada and Governor of Michigan may give her an advantage.

Also, border state Governors and Senators would be at an advantage in Canada. Brian Schweitzer, Byron Dorgan, etc.

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Considering thrid parties rarely capture 4 or 5 percent of the vote in the US the green party would be pretty popular by American standards. We may have to make it a little less realistic to keep the GOP competitive. Since Obama was president and it didn't work out well that might change some canadian voters minds. American modertes like Mccain would do better in Canada then more conservative canditates. But looking at it the GOP is probably closer to the CPC platform then the Democrats are. I think the die hard harper supporters in the west can make the GOP and contender out there and with the Lierals and the NDP possibly splitting the vote in BC may also help them there. If we assume the bloc takes quebec like they always do and a skilled GOPer takes the west the Demo wins in Ontario and the maritimes are almost moot.

Anyways I desperatly need help on a map. I tried combining the President forever 2008 and prime minister maps but it didn't work too well.

Um, Ok, I guess. Have fun making the scenario. There should be one in the 2004 scenario files that has a map in it, if you need one.

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Anti-Unionists aren't necessarily conservative, though. Orchard may have been a part of the Progressive Conservatives, but many accused him of entryism (basically, infiltrating a party only to change its ideology, in this case to the left) and he joined the Liberals after the merger, although he would by default abandon them if they became pro-union. Orchard himself has many unorthodox views compared with other conservatives. He considers the Afghanistan war to be imperialistic, he favors more federal control, he is fine with the social net and even wants to expand it in some places, etc. He's basically a populist.

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Um, Ok, I guess. Have fun making the scenario. There should be one in the 2004 scenario files that has a map in it, if you need one.

I realize that Canada with the exeption of Alberta would probably be solid democrat if an election was held today. But the scenario is 2010 alot hs changed. Obama is very unpopular as Bush is. A scenario that heavily favors one party or an other is no fun at all.

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I still haven't figured out how to combine the maps.. I get rid of the blue at the border but I can't conect thme cause theres a white area between them.

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I still haven't figured out how to combine the maps.. I get rid of the blue at the border but I can't conect thme cause theres a white area between them.

http://www.theoryspark.com/political_games...arios/index.htm

Go to "Ultimate United North America", download. It's not a bad map. Saskguy made a better one, but I have't seen him around in a bit.

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I realize that Canada with the exeption of Alberta would probably be solid democrat if an election was held today. But the scenario is 2010 alot hs changed. Obama is very unpopular as Bush is. A scenario that heavily favors one party or an other is no fun at all.

It seems to me that if an American President managed to achieve a US-Canada Union, that would be the crowning achievement of his Presidency. Coming off of such an accomplishment would leave President Obama with a lot of momentum, no? And if a majority of Americans oppose the union, there's not a snowball's shot in hell that a union would get done. Realistically, Obama's approval rating would be around 60%. But with the wild card of Canada in the primaries, and an urge for change, Obama would be in no way assured the Liberal Party's nomination.

I would say that best way to balance the scenario would be to strength the NDP, making it possible to the Conservatives to take pluralities in states. With the inclusion of Canada, it should be marginally easier for the left. But with the inclusion of the NDP, it should leave the right in good shape.

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Anti-Unionists aren't necessarily conservative, though. Orchard may have been a part of the Progressive Conservatives, but many accused him of entryism (basically, infiltrating a party only to change its ideology, in this case to the left) and he joined the Liberals after the merger, although he would by default abandon them if they became pro-union. Orchard himself has many unorthodox views compared with other conservatives. He considers the Afghanistan war to be imperialistic, he favors more federal control, he is fine with the social net and even wants to expand it in some places, etc. He's basically a populist.

It still seems to me that hard-line conservatives, your Pat Buchanans of the world, would be the most adamant opponents of any merger. It might be an odd coupling, but the far-right would embrace a populist if it meant ending the union.

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Remember the reason for the union. Severe economic recession bordering on deppression. The countries had to merge to stay on par with the EU but its been less than a year and the economy is moving but slower than predicted. On an unrelated note I think there would be some distrust between the american and the Canadain canditates. It just seems that the respected countries wouldn't want a canditate from the other country running their lives as many probably recgonize themselves as nations within a nation. Which means that regardless of idealology a Canadain liberal might vote for a canadian conservative over a american liberal.

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